LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

At a guess, that they may see or hear information that this political lobby would much prefer no one was exposed to.

Clue: when someone makes it clear they are very afraid of you hearing the other side of their views and arguments, it's a whopping, huge red flag.

the LGB Alliance are not trans friendly

Oh the drama.

All you can possibly mean by this is that they are not TQ+ centric, not compliant with TQ+ political beliefs and tenets, and do not believe that homosexual people should be converted to something more acceptable to TQ+ politics.

If those things are 'unfriendly' to T people then there's something very, very wrong, and it isn't with the LGBA.

I wonder what twitter think might happen if some unsuspecting person were to stumble across it without first being warned.
😬😵😬

Such great news for gays, lesbians and bi people. It was high time that LGBA got recognized for their excellent work

Does that differ from the state of play described in the OP?

I would link to their Twitter announcement, but in usual state of play, Twitter has marked it ' may not be appropriate for people under 18'.

tbf, I gather that a fair amount of medical education Twitter comes with similar warnings and enquiries.

And yet those issuing threats of rape, assault and death to women are not…. It’s almost like there’s an agenda and Twitter is run by misogynistic arseholes.

The LGB Alliance Twitter now has a warning asking if you still want to view it.

Exactly what @VestofAbsurdity said. If you are saying that homosexuality is ‘transphobic’, I’d say you were actually a homophobe and not worthy of being listened to. A transwoman cannot be a lesbian as a lesbian is a female homosexual. A transwoman who fancies a woman is a straight male. A transwoman who fancies men is a homosexual male. A transwoman who fancies both men and women is a bisexual male. @Starlee does that make it easier to understand?

Sexual orientation and gender identity are different things

They are completely different glad you've realised that, sexual orientation is based on the sex bit and is nothing to do with gender identity, the clue is in the term homosexual meaning same sex attracted and that is the ethos of LGBA which is merely upholding and standing for the rights of those who are same sex (or both sex) attracted as per the definition and the Law of the land. Unlike Stonewall, et al, who have bastardised the term to mean same gender attracted which completely undermines the whole basis of homosexuality.

Transwomen attracted to women are not lesbians they have not changed sex they are still the male sex they were born no matter what they have done to their bodies and the same apples to transmen attracted to men.

You consider that not trans friendly I consider what you are espousing and what Stonewall and every other organisation that undermines homosexuality in this way to be deeply, revoltingly and dangerously homophobic.

The theory of gender identity is not synonymous with trans. Transwomen are males with gender dysphoria. Suggesting that they receive counseling for their condition and understanding that they are not women is not being anti trans any more than telling an anorexic that they aren’t obese is anti-anorexics.

You don't seem to understand that a lot of trans people are actually LGB as well, not all straight. Sexual orientation and gender identity are different things and it's very common for people to be both.

How are you defining that though? Do you think that a transwoman can be a lesbian?

Well, I'm a lesbian and I'm saying that with all your hate talk against the LGB Alliance you're spreading fear and disinformation and should be ashamed of your homophobia.

The LGBA isn't anti-trans and doesn't hate trans people. I've told my MP and the Labour Party (of which I'm a member) that while they lie about the basics — sex and biology — I won't believe a word of anything else they say. Because if they're so wrong on something so fundamental, what else have they failed to get their heads around? The exact same applies to you. While you characterise the LGBA as being anti-trans I'm just going to ignore everything else you say. I suggest others do too. You're arguing in bad faith.

Firstly, maybe youngsters don't realise that the LGB Alliance are not trans friendly and it might just be the first helpline they see advertised. They might not even realise they are trans and biased 'help' is no help at all. And all LGBT helplines categorically DO NOT tell young LGB people that "they're really trans so actually straight" anyway ". That is not just 'Hyperbole' it's an outright LIE.
You don't seem to understand that a lot of trans people are actually LGB as well, not all straight. Sexual orientation and gender identity are different things and it's very common for people to be both.

Secondly, if a trans kid calls the LGB Alliance helpline they're more likely to be told that they're not really trans, that give it time and they'll grow up to be simply lesbian or gay, which is actually part of the LGBA mission statement. You are very naive to think the LGBA will miss a chance to try and 'convert' a trans kid to an lgb kid instead. They won't be helped 'just like anyone else', have you seen how the LGBA talk to trans people ot their allies?

Thirdly, how am I "spreading fear and lies about LGB people"? I am lgb myself and have a trans daughter and am talking from lived experience. Are you?

"All those letters" belong together because of all the similar fights they've had, because there is strength in numbers, because unity is better than division, love is better than hate, and because most LGB and TQ+ people WANT them to be together, the LGB Alliance are a small minority of the worldwide 'rainbow' community and certainly don't speak for all of us LGB people.

Which all sounds very lovely and and fluffy and rainbowy, sure, but the problem is that any "LG" people in that combined grouping are now either (a) not actually homosexual, or (b) have to pretend they're not homosexual, and would be open to partners of the opposite sex.

So it doesn't work out terribly well for them in practice any more.

To say you are specifically same-sex attracted is a bannable offence in many such "LGBTQ+" spaces, such as dating sites. This is not hyperbole.

So same-sex attracted people - particularly younger ones looking for partners - clearly need new spaces where it's acceptable to be homosexual, and maybe they can even be proud of it, rather than be shamed for it. And they need organisations willing to stand up for them being openly homosexual.

And if 'love' is better than 'hate' would you pop over and sort out the messaging that homosexual people need to learn to 'cope' with straight sex or be punched, raped, shunned, beaten with barbed wire baseball bats and so on?

There really is no sense coming out with this trite sentimental waffle when its in defense of a political movement that could not be less tolerant or caring if it tried.

They certainly do however speak for some of us.

At least starlee admitted that T people seems to be very different in needs to LGB people. Maybe, just maybe, they will be able to say just why all those letters have to be together otherwise, it is just hate and anti-T.

Of course there are differences, one is sexual orientation, the other is gender identity, two different things.
But they do have some things in common, all need acceptance from others to be who they are without being discriminated against.
Many need help to come to terms with their own situation. LGB and T people often lose family and friends who will not support them, most will suffer either verbal and/or physical abuse because of transphobia and homophobia, they can have extra problems to cope with in terms of employment, housing etc.
It is also very common for trans people to also be LGB and historically have fought alongside each other for their human rights, despite some anti-trans groups now trying to deny any trans involvement in that fight.
"All those letters" belong together because of all the similar fights they've had, because there is strength in numbers, because unity is better than division, love is better than hate, and because most LGB and TQ+ people WANT them to be together, the LGB Alliance are a small minority of the worldwide 'rainbow' community and certainly don't speak for all of us LGB people.

This.

Stonewall et al have shunted 'LGBT+' to meaning to them, 'compliant with TQ+ gender ideology politics'. They are not pro homosexuality (in fact getting increasingly openly homophobic and justifying it) because this sets boundaries on a person's perception of their transition.

Homosexual is something different. It does not mean 'politically compliant'. It means people with a highly diverse range of political views and belief systems who have only one thing in common: they are same sex attracted. And are not intending to be bullied out of this.

This is in essence why the LGBA is seen as such a massive threat, and the panic and hyperbole and drama is reaching epic proportions. To permit homosexual and bi people to organise based entirely and only on their sexuality rather than on political compliance yanks away the figleaf that Stonewall is any friend to homosexual people, removes much of their raison detre and permits a very unhelpful voice to the homosexual people who do not want to be hoovered up in TQ+ agendas that are absolutely not in their interests.

They do not want homosexual kids being permitted to hear information or be supported by those who are not compliant mouthpieces of TQ+ politics and will ensure everything said is filtered through the best interests of the agenda at all times. That's the fear.

This

Oh the twisting and turning to try & justify why LGB teens shouldn’t have their own helpline is as always very illuminating

LGB alliance are just being accused of the same thing women are, of being “anti trans” (which seems to range from everything including not immediately agreeing that Dave from accounts be addressed as she/her on alternate days of the week to thinking that a 3 year old boy in a dress is just that)

LGB alliance are pro lesbian gay & bisexual people they are not anti trans the same way that the donkey sanctuary is pro donkey is not anti cows

Just wondering if it might be helpful to start actually using the word "homosexual" here, as I have a suspicion that Starlee and others mean something different by "LGB" here to others - I think Starlee is using the "homogenderal" definition, hence to them LGB Alliance is "transphobic" because it's not supporting "LGB trans people" (ie heterosexuals).

I think this is a really important point. Biological males, however they identify, cannot be lesbians & biological females cannot be gay men.

The LGB Alliance is not against transpeople. They are just about supporting people who are same sex attracted. Identifying as trans has nothing to do with sexuality.

Where did I even suggest that? Of course it's not. But being against trans people, which the LGB Alliance undoubtedly are, IS transphobic.
I think you'll find cancer charities and victims will of course support people with the same type of cancer as themselves, but that doesn't mean they speak out against those with a different cancer, they can support all.

Just wondering if it might be helpful to start actually using the word "homosexual" here, as I have a suspicion that Starlee and others mean something different by "LGB" here to others - I think Starlee is using the "homogenderal" definition, hence to them LGB Alliance is "transphobic" because it's not supporting "LGB trans people" (ie heterosexuals).

The problem isn't really much the exclusion of the T (although they claim it is, and that doesn't make much sense). It's the refusal to accept the "homogenderal" definition of LGB, but they can't actually say that directly.

How on earth did you come to that conclusion? Of course I'm not, conversion therapy should be banned FOR ALL!
You can't 'cure' gay and lesbian, same as you can't 'cure' trans. This govt have gone back on their promise to ban conversion therapy for all, limiting the ban only for gays and lesbians, calling it "an abhorrent practice", yet still want to allow it for trans kids? So it's ok for trans kids to be subjected to that same "abhorrent practice" banned for lesbian and gay?
And 'therapy' is the wrong word, therapy is seen as helping people, conversion 'therapy' doesn't work and causes more harm than good. For everyone, LGB or T.

The bit of my post you highlighted above is only about trans kids, not about those who are happily LGB and not trans. You cannot stop a person being trans by persuading them they're just LGB, that is more akin to conversion therapy!

There's absolutely nothing wrong with begin LGB, I am myself, but some people are lgb AND trans, it's not at all uncommon.

Titchy actually thinks the opposite -

Surely you don't think people manning TQ+ helplines would use a young person's distress to further their own activism?

You might want to switch on your sarcasm-meter....

I absolutely DO think those manning TQ+ helplines are not likely to be capable of support beyond their own activist view. Which is why a helpline from a reputable organisation that has safeguarding at its forefront is so important.