LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

And 10questions

Shall we start pointing out who supports organisations such as stonewall?

Really? That is all you have? Another childish tactic?

FFS

Of course trans women and trans men can be homosexual,

I will spell it out in a simple and unmistakable manner because the deliberate obfuscation is annoying to read.

That was in response to the question “Do you think a trans woman can be a lesbian?”

This response from Starlee has confirmed the following points:

-When they refer to homosexual trans people they mean heterosexuals.
-When they refer to LGB trans people they mean heterosexuals and bisexuals.

If they were to discuss “straight” trans people they’d be talking about homosexuals, but it seems like homosexual people aren’t at the top of their priority list.

@Starlee how are you LG and B? You do know those are all very different things and it is impossible to be all three? Do you know what those letters even mean?

ZombieMumEB

By continuously posting in this thread, all Starlee is achieving, is shining the light on the logical fallacies they are using

yes. I am not sure that Starlee sees it though.

It is very hard to see the wider picture of what is really happening when you are in the bottom of a trench that narrows your vision. Perspective comes from robust evidence from a wide range of original sources and open discussion and not constant emotional manipulation and repeating mantras.

There does seem to be a sense of ambiguity now sneaking into the replies.

Such as ‘of course trans people can be homosexual’! While avoiding the actual substance of the post which related to definition of lesbian.

This is dishonest. The question clearly was ‘Do you think that a transwoman can be a lesbian?

So, a sleight of hand in effect.

Just like the inane denial of harm and abuse being targeted at lesbians for disagreeing that lesbians should have the right to reject males assuming the label of ‘lesbian’. We have all seen it. We have even seen the goady threads on MN created by males on Lesbian celebration days that get quickly deleted. And rightly so.

All through this thread is the assertion that the only people who seem to have legitimate claim to define everyone else is this small extremist group. Who even denounce other trans people for disagreeing with the redefinitions that are being forced on them.

So further marginalising members of the very community that are supposedly the most vulnerable and marginalised already. Because they don’t subscribe to the correct group think.

But, it is ok… ‘those’ trans people don’t count so it seems, they don’t get a say.

The consistent message seems to be ‘I hate LGB Alliance, you should too’, and that ‘you all have to agree to the new definitions of the words you use to describe yourself or you are hateful’.

There seems no substance to the repetitive message otherwise.

@Starlee
As homosexuality and gender identity are two different things then it's entirely possible to be both.

I am confused.

Here you acknowledge that these are 2 different things - yet you are greatly opposed to one group providing support for those who need it, in regards to their sexuality.

I think your issue is that once T is forced to survive on it's own - it's going to quickly fizzle out in regards to support by the wider community.

Just because an organisation (or person) doesn't centre the T in everything, it doesn't make it transphobic. If you apply this logic to anything - then pretty much everything would be seen as transphobic.

By continuously posting in this thread, all @Starlee is achieving, is shining the light on the logical fallacies they are using - and it's just going to peak a lot more people. This sort of arguing is what peaked me and those around me.

@Starlee is actually doing a disservice to the T community and is causing them literal harm.

Of course trans women and trans men can be homosexual, everyone has a sexuality including trans people, being trans doesn't turn them off sex! As you say, sex and gender are different things.

No hate speech from me, it's all from experience. And it's not just me who "characterise the LGBA as being anti-trans", they've done so themselves many times. And it's why they set up the organisation!

I'm also a Labour party member and can't wait for them to be in power to stop this bigoted govt damaging even more lives!

"but the problem is that any "LG" people in that combined grouping are now either (a) not actually homosexual, or (b) have to pretend they're not homosexual, and would be open to partners of the opposite sex"

And that is absolute rubbish, all in you imagination, homosexual people are the same as they've always been, they haven't changed and no-one is telling them they must.

There is no such messaging, it's all a myth.
And "could not be less tolerant or caring if it tried."- sounds exactly like the majority view of this forum towards trans people.

But the LGBA are anti-trans, that's why they were set up and they made that perfectly clear in their opening mission statement..

Ok then, biological males can be homosexual, and then realise they're trans, and biological women can be homosexual then realise they're trans.
As homosexuality and gender identity are two different things then it's entirely possible to be both.

Of course it's against transgender people, they admitted it in their opening mission statement, that's why they were set up in the first place!

And you're right, trans has nothing to do with sexuality, so why do the LGBA think if trans people are refused the help they need to transition then they'll just be LGB instead? You can't turn one into the other.

Don't tell me what I mean by 'LGB', I am LGB and know exactly what it means thank you. And not all trans people are heterosexual, same as not all LGB people want rid of the T, only a small minority do!

why a helpline from a reputable organisation that has safeguarding at its forefront is so important.

From a reputable organisation, yes, but the LGBAlliance is far from reputable, it has had funding stopped, it is know to be anti-trans, they are in a small minority of LGB groups who do not support the T, they have admitted they don't believe trans people exist when they plainly do.

What makes you say TQ+ helplines are not likely to help, you know that from lives experience do you, how many have you personally dealt with?

No, this service will not recognise Trans at all, they already say it does not exist. If kids tell them they're lgb, then yes this service will rightly say they're fine as they are, but if they say they're trans they'll be told no, you're just a confused lg or b. Which is exactly what they tell kids now.
You need to listen to the trans kids that have been wrongly 'advised' by the LGBA, not to the LGBA who were set up to oppose trans people.

Well, that is rather depressing.

Just visited an old thread on James Esses where I feel like I was having a very similar discussion back in September 2021.

It really feels like some people have been convinced so deeply that any deviation from the extremist activist view that we are simply in 'rinse and repeat' mode and little progress has been made.

Despite the fact that each month, it becomes more clear just how unsupportable the ideological thinking that some people have is in the long term.

Despite the fact that each month, it becomes more clear just how much harm it is causing to young people and to females of all ages.

I hope it turns out to be a passing phase. It must be a bit discombobulating for them.

Yes, NotKevinTurvey, it's quite the puzzle...

No binary gay? That’s quite a strange one isn’t it?

When homosexuality is no longer acceptable or permissible and involves shame, harrassment and exclusion unless someone completely re writes their sexuality and desires - not because they wish to or need to but solely in order to meet the needs of someone who wishes to perceive themselves as the opposite sex?

Yes, that's a problem to a sane world. It really is. Other people's lives, perceptions and feelings and bodies cannot be commandeered and bent to fit the personal perceptions and agendas of TQ+ people. This is not rational nor reasonable.

My oldest used to say that they were a transgirl but, for the last year or so, has said that they now see themself as non binary.

They also say that they are gay.

I wonder if any of our new friends would be able to confirm whether that means my oldest's sexual orientation is towards male people or female people?

Agreed, it would be like saying they're a huge problem to a sane world

It would be like if people with a disability such as paralysis would demand non disabled people would also never walk but use wheelchairs and all stairs would be banned. That would pose a huge problem to existing society. Just like certain people demanding everyone loses single sex spaces and sports just because of a few people who don't like it.