LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

All of @Starlee's posts are absolute proof of just how damaging gender identity is to homosexuals, it's all there for everyone to see in glorious technicolour.

So why don't you have Stonewall, who can believe what they believe, and I'll have the LGBA who believe something different, and we all live and let live? We all have the different organisations that support us and give us a voice.

Ah Artichoke live and let live for you - how very dare you think you are entitled to that?

This endless conversation reminds me of one I had a few months ago on here with an activist who repeatedly tried to tell me two things:

1. they absolutely did not thing coercing people into sex was ok, it was awful, no one should be pressured into sex they didn't want, they definitely weren't homophobic, how dare I suggest they'd be behind something so terrible?

2. I was a terrible person, like a racist, if I did not make myself 'get over my genital preferences' and learn to have sex with male people who wanted it if those male people liked to label themselves as lesbians. And this was the social duty of all female homosexuals.

They were incapable of seeing that they were in fact all for coercion, pressure and homophobia, they just wanted to say and identify that they weren't at the same time because to admit what they actually believed was uncomfortable for them. They couldn't own it.

Basically, that's moral cowardice.

I have no objection to an LGB helpline, but I do object to a helpline run by a transphobic organisation that Bev Jackson states was set up to oppose "damaging theory of gender identity".

Well if gender identity believes homosexuality is racism, aren't homosexual people allowed to find that 'damaging' and want to get the fuck away from it?

You do object to a helpline run by an organisation that wants to be about and for only homosexual people, and is not controlled by TQ+ politics. You've called it 'inferior' among other things for not being all about the TQ+ and focused on it.

Homosexual people do not all want to have to 'learn to cope' with unwanted straight sex, be excluded from Pride if they won't obey, and be called 'racist'. It's insane. 'Transphobic organisation' merely means 'does not centre gender identity politics over and above all other interests'. I don't want anything to do with gender identity politics, I want gender identity politics to leave me alone.

The LGBA don't speak for all LGB people, they certainly don't speak for me.

But they do speak for me. And other LGB people. Who don't feel that Stonewall is any friend of theirs, and is actually no friend to homosexual people.

So why don't you have Stonewall, who can believe what they believe, and I'll have the LGBA who believe something different, and we all live and let live? We all have the different organisations that support us and give us a voice.

Because the LGBA (and I) am not trying to stamp anyone and anything else out of existence. I can cope with Stonewall existing and leave it alone even though I think it's sadly now a homophobic bastion of insanity that should be consigned to the bin of history. It's Stonewall that can't tolerate LGB people being allowed to exist outside of it's control. Which tells you a lot about Stonewall and its supporters really.

Why are you bringing 'agender' into this? I thought it was a typo, like a lot of the stuff you're coming out with.

Feel free to point out any typo I've made.
Agender people are trans. You know, the group of people you claim to advocate for? What a dismissive and exclusionary attitude you have towards them.

Will you have the decency to apologise to the many agender people on here for your ignorance? It's harmful.

starlee not once have you given a single example of what you believe a matching mind and body is, despite repeatedly saying the mismatch is what being trans is.

It's clear to me you don't know, do you? You don't know. You just repeat the words, but you can't communicate what you mean by them. That is a clear example of bigotry.

You agreed that children's bodies could be wrongly aligned to their minds without bothering to even find out what this means. Did you "ask the nhs" as you've advised me?

The whole belief system is underpinned by the dishonesty and hypocrisy demonstrated by your posts.

it merely, refers to your gotcha. Your 'gotcha' is an indication of ideological thinking. Not rational thought.

whose founder stated was actually set up to oppose "the damaging theory of gender identity."

Yes ? So what? An organisation can be set up to 'oppose' a theory without doing so in a 'hateful' way.

Again, your 'gotcha' is not showing what you intend. It merely seems to stem from an extreme ideological view.... which is what many people are rejecting.

In fact, that is the point.

People want a choice in LGB representation. And you seem determined to restrict that choice based on your deep prejudice.

So what? LGB Alliance was set up to oppose the damaging theory of gender identity, you quote. Yep. They set up an organisation that makes LGB the sole focus of their remit and where the campaigning of other groups conflicts with the rights and needs of LGB people.

And strangely one of the most damaging conflicts has been the forced inclusion of opposite sex people into homosexual people's words and spaces, just to start with.

If you don't agree with that statement as a LGB person, then don't get involved in LGB Alliance . But like other groups focused on campaigning for rights, the results of their campaign will still benefit all LGB people whether you support them or not.

They cannot be trusted to offer unbiased help.

You have not once presented a credible argument to support this repetitive claim.

What they can provide is a service focused on LGB needs for young people and if that young person is trans, and in need of support around LGB issues, they are there. If the trans person needs support for trans issues, they can be directed to a support organisation that specialises in that support.

So we are at 37 pages and not one shred of evidence has been provided that LGB Alliance is not going to provide a high quality, unbiased service.

Just a thread full of repetitive posts based on glaringly obvious prejudice and frankly, this last two pages has spilled into out and out hatred of an organisation set up as an alternative to other organisations who now focus on TQ and not LGB.

Again, not even an actual engagement around what LGB Alliance would be providing, just continued doubling down on what seems like rhetoric pulled from Twitter .

I think it has continued to have been a convincing display of the incoherent and lack of evidence based tactics of extreme and entrenched trans focused activation.

The LGBA and supporters' continued attempts to trash Stonewall is transphobic, pure and simple.

First, this does rather crystallise that Stonewall is now all about the T and against LGB people.

Second, this thread isn't about "trashing" Stonewall but about the LGB Alliance doing something very positive for LGB young people, which you also oppose.

DeaconBoo the reason why Starlee is frustrating you is because they are unable to explain what minds and bodies matching is.. You'll never actually get a description because as soon as one is attempted, the rank sexism is exposed.

Actually describing thoughts, feelings or characteristics that advocates of transgenderism believe should be attributed to each sex doesn't happen.

It would have to follow mundane, old fashioned sexist stereotypes. So they don't do it. You'll just get the woolly terms like 'mismatched'. The same way they cant describe the word woman in TWAW.

Starlee's constant self contradiction and wriggling like a fish on a hook is indicative of their cognitive dissonance, not yours.

Hence you never getting the answer you seek.

"continued attempts to trash them is homopbobia, pure and simple"

The LGBA and supporters' continued attempts to trash Stonewall is transphobic, pure and simple.

@Starlee I could post repeatedly on every page of this thread that I am the reincarnation of Napoleon. That wouldn't make it true. Too many of us know the LGB Alliance too well to know the stuff you are constantly repeating about them is nonsense.

Your continued attempts to trash them is homopbobia, pure and simple.

What I DO oppose is a transphobic organisation whose founder stated was actually set up to oppose "the damaging theory of gender identity." They cannot be trusted to offer unbiased help.

The theory of gender identity is damaging to homosexuals.

Why are you bringing 'agender' into this? I thought it was a typo, like a lot of the stuff you're coming out with. 🙄

I have never opposed that. Why would I oppose an organisation that wants to support people like me? What I DO oppose is a transphobic organisation whose founder stated was actually set up to oppose "the damaging theory of gender identity." They cannot be trusted to offer unbiased help.
You might find this an interesting read Uncovered: LGB Alliance

If you don't understand what the NHS are saying perhaps you should ask them? I've wasted more than enough time trying to explain to you.

"[ as 'having the wrong body, because your kind of true self/soul/personality is only ever found in other types of body'] ,"

You think that makes sense? 😂
Maybe you should have left the posts as they were instead of tying to condense them because you have just made them unreadable and not making any sense at all.
And ME not posting honestly? Don't make me laugh, I posted honestly but you've chopped and changed and condensed my words while adding some of your own and not differentiation between them, now that's dishonest!

If you can't understand what I'm saying try reading the NHS explanation instead. I'm sick of answering the same thing over and over.
Gender dysphoria is a term that describes a sense of unease that a person may have because of a mismatch between their biological sex and their gender identity.

And because you confuse gender dysphoria with body dysmorphia you could read this from the NHS too Body dysmorphic disorder (BDD), or body dysmorphia, is a mental health condition where a person spends a lot of time worrying about flaws in their appearance. These flaws are often unnoticeable to others.

"The whole reason you joined this thread (remember what the thread is actually about?) is to say that you don't believe homosexual people should be allowed an organisation or representation of their own because to do so is hostile to TQ+ people, and they should not be allowed to run a helpline to talk to gay kids in case they mishandle a TQ+ one. So yes, you are insisting that homosexual people must not be allowed to organise."
No that's not what I said. Being bisexual I have no objection to an LGB helpline, but I do object to a helpline run by a transphobic organisation that Bev Jackson states was set up to oppose "damaging theory of gender identity". Hardly unbiased.

"And that isn't because of T people, because 30-40 years ago when I was going to Pride there were plenty of T people there."
Yet how many times have people here denied that trans people have ever had anything to do with LGB people and that's why the T should be removed?

"The LGBA only has to exist to be intolerable to TQ+ politics."
No, The LGBA only has to open its mouth to talk about "TRAs" to be intolerable to the majority of LGBTQ+ people. The LGBA don't speak for all LGB people, they certainly don't speak for me.

"saying 'but if you only knew a T person like I do....' which in effect adds, (you'd let me be homophobic and shove you out of your own organisation without arguing about it, while activisting to stop you setting up something else of your own where you'd be allowed to exist in peace too.)"
Is that your personal experience, is that what YOU mean when you say "I have no problem at all with T people, I have T friends, I've been part of groups with T people since my teens"?

^ woah sorry, replying to a post really far back there...!

And that is absolute rubbish, all in you imagination, homosexual people are the same as they've always been, they haven't changed and no-one is telling them they must.

Quit with the gaslighting.
Young lesbians are being told that people with a penis should be included in their sexuality.
That's not lesbianism. It's guilt tripping young vulnerable L people and you know it.

Btw starlee do you just log on and spot a post from the day before/before then reply to that individually, then read the next one and reply to that etc?
You won't get the full thread of the discussion that way - just picking individual posts out of context - as can be seen by the very bizarre misinterpretation of my post that you demonstrated.

It's general forum etiquette on MN to read the full thread before posting, as you'll see on most other long-running threads.

I'm sure you'll think this is an awful thing to suggest, but it's in the spirit of not duplicating posts or creating extremely long quote threads, and keeping to the Talk guidelines.

So you think all trans people are asexual?
No, I don't at all.

You can tell what I think by the words I say I think, not by words you make up that are different and mean different things.

If you are agender, the gender you are attracted to (if any) can be neither the same nor different as your own, because you don't have one.

So you think all trans people are asexual?

What @ArcheryAnnie said.