LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

Yes, they were rescued from Afghanistan and brought to Britain thanks to the coordinated efforts of Her Majesty's Government and Stonewall.

www.washingtonpost.com/world/2021/10/30/britain-afghan-lgbt-refugees/

I really don't know what you mean by "which bodies match up with which type of inner beings?"
The question doesn't make any sense.

It's a fact that many trans people use being "born in the wrong body" when trying to describe how they feel. How can anyone who isn't trans really understand how that feels, we can only go by what we're told, and accept that the person knows themselves, like we do.

I don't see how that means a personality type has a matching body type, most bodies are pretty similar depending on whether they're male or female, regardless what the personality is like.

"They will give information that doesn't include for example 'it is wrong to not be attracted to a trans girl with a penis if you say you're lesbian, and you should train yourself to get over your prejudices because some girls have penises'."

That is just plain scaremongering and a totally fabricated 'example'. No helpline is going to say that to anyone.

@Starlee

No I don't believe in a 'greater being' as in a god etc, but I do believe there is a soul, essence, that inner being or whatever you choose to call it that makes a person uniquely them.

And I believe that 'inner being' can feel at odds with the body because I've seen for myself the changes before and after transitioning and it's not something that can be 'put on' if it's not real.

You've said repeatedly that there are mismatches and matches between 'inner beings' and 'bodies'. Please, please, can you explain - which bodies match up with which type of inner beings?

I'm honestly trying to understand, but you keep ignoring this question which would help me get what you mean by matching/mismatching.

I doubt the LGBA would 'steer' children in any direction; the whole point of their setting up was to prevent the steering of people based on political agenda.

What they will provide is information and support that follows the child and their choices and feelings and sexuality - and it is for LGB about the sexuality, not about the gender identity politics. They will give information that doesn't include for example 'it is wrong to not be attracted to a trans girl with a penis if you say you're lesbian, and you should train yourself to get over your prejudices because some girls have penises'.

Which is homophobic and fails to accept a gay child as they are, to let their feelings and their choices and their instincts guide who they are and what they are. You know, the way TQ+ children are allowed to do.

Children are too young to know if they are gay or trans, the LGBA will be there to steer them in the right direction.

I thought the whole point was to help gay,lesbian and bi people with their particular problems. Why would someone who knows they are trans phone them about being trans, there are lots of other helplines for tra ns people?

Yes @Starlee, the LGBA helpline will dissuade children who think they're trans - that's the whole point of it!

it's always such a wonderful inclusive celebration and protest, based on love, inclusiveness, unity, community, LGBTQ+ all happy together and supported by the general public, just how it could always be 😎

Coming back to this then. Should we post the collection of quotes from transitioned males that start to disprove this rather fanciful and not just a little propaganda like statement.

And I think the sunglasses will be needed if we get even a small % of the quotes down due to the bright light being focused on just how some transitioned males feel about females in general, and sometimes lesbians in particular.

All wonderfully inclusive. Because I don’t think they exclude any female, nor any lesbian if the quote is about lesbians. Just wonderful hate being spread equally.

Or are we to believe it is love and that the targeted women should feel happy they are so targeted? Like DARVO in action.

The first has already been mention on this thread,

McKinnon in regards to lesbians not wanting sex with a penis : ‘Other times, the cis lesbian gets over her genital hangups and realizes that she can cope just fine’ (2016)

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3411070-Rachael-McKinnon-another-gem-from-the-you-couldnt-make-it-up-guidebook

I will post some more later and I am sure others will find more too.

There is a particularly disturbing quote from some one called Alok about ‘kinky little girls’… and the one from Long Chou about females being expectant arseholes and empty empty eyes…. And a transitioned male called Jane Fae who supports extreme porn, who reckons many murders of female partners is because they have eggshell skulls.

These are not ‘no ones’ either by the way. These are not random anonymous or even not anonymous people posting shit on the internet. These are lauded spokespeople for the trans community.

Part of the community we are being told is wonderfully inclusive and full of love…

Except that it is not true really.

An lgba helpline really aren't going to tell any trans kids who who aren't sure that they really are trans, they will tell them they are gay or lesbian which can only cause harm to the trans kids.

Well it's taken 23 pages but we got there in the end.

The actual problem is that your prejudice about any group not controlled by TQ+ politics makes you concerned that they may, possibly, theoretically, at some point tell a theoretical TQ+ child something not straight from the TQ+ politics handbook.

However you're absolutely fine with TQ+ politically controlled helplines and groups who have guided LGB kids into transition who later regretted it because they were LGB and not TQ+ (Keira Bell being one) and did extensive, permanent harm to themselves on the way, and of the TQ+ controlled politics harassing LGB people to not be homosexual and teaching LGB kids that being homosexual is racist and they must learn to cope with and train themselves to be attracted to heterosexual sex rather than ever distress a TQ+ person by being homosexual and therefore having a boundary that a TQ+ person may not like.

Your homophobia and your unequal standards and your prejudice is baffling. This is actual bigotry. You're not prepared for LGB people to be permitted anything at all of their own voice, their own resources, to go their own way, they must obey, conform and submit to TQ+ politics or they shouldn't be allowed to exist. Or talk to LGB kids.

I find this quite disturbing.

It also comes up again and again, this belief that TQ+ people are so much more precious and valuable and important and priority than just LGB kids. Or women. Or children who need safeguarding. And it is fine for those mere mortals to be collateral damage, to have less, to be made to experience things that TQ+ people must never be expected to suffer. What is this? Why are LGB kids ok to be props in TQ+ politics, to be exposed to full on conversion beliefs, and the effects on them fine, but TQ+ kids even theoretically must never risk hearing that there are other options and choices and views out there?

Or maybe Starlee really believes that same sex attracted women can be " converted" to being attracted to the opposite sex?

@Starlee
No I don't believe in a 'greater being' as in a god etc, but I do believe there is a soul, essence, that inner being or whatever you choose to call it that makes a person uniquely them.

So, a personality?

@Conflictedunicorn
@starlee so you say as a non trans person you cannot understand how a transperson feels. So how could a male understand what is I’d to ‘feel like a woman?
One of the many areas where applying logic and critical thinking skills to the TRA trope, shows how it's all horseshit nonsense.

@starlee so you say as a non trans person you cannot understand how a transperson feels. So how could a male understand what is I’d to ‘feel like a woman? No male is a woman and no female is a man. Are you claiming transpeople have magical powers not gifted to the rest of us poor mortals, or are you starting to realise that this cannot be possible.

Hearach15:
"They used to say two women or two men couldn't be parents together and the world got used to that idea."

Irrelevant. Gay is different to trans. They used to say the earth couldn't go round the sun and the world got used to that idea. Equally irrelevant. ... Oh, look. The point is obvious. Trans isn't the same as gay. How many times do we have to go over the same thing?

Hearach15:
"As for the idea that trans women aren't women, well, that may be your view but thankfully is isn't the law."

Sophistry.

The law says trans women are women (if it even does) in the same way the law says corporations are persons. This is a very attenuated sense of 'woman' and 'person' at best, and certainly not enough to bear the weight Hearach15 wants to put on it here - unless, that is, the claim of a man to be a woman in the trans case is to be taken in just this attenuated sense.

My mother was a woman. Hearach15's mother was too. Everybody's mother was a woman. All of us who understand English understand those claims - so a fortiori we all understand the sense of 'woman' used in them. In this - everyday - sense of 'woman', a man who says he is a woman is mistaken. A mistake of this genre cannot be made by a man who sincerely claims to be gay, because ... well, once again, because for a man to feel he is attracted to someone is just for him to be attracted to that person, whereas for a man to feel he is a woman is for him to be mistaken.

Not only is this everyday sense the important sense just here, it would be simply bizarre to claim all the nonsense about 'transwomen are women' to be merely about 'women' in the attenuated sense in which ASDA is a person. I'm sure Hearach15 doesn't want to claim no more than that meagre truism. But, well, that's the best she can do, so ... well, so the usual sophistical equivocation.

-And, of course (legal, schmegal?) ... a law can say The Earth Cannot Move all it likes. Eppur si muove. Hein? Laws can't change facts of nature. (Or analytic truths, for that matter. Take your pick.)

@Hearach15 "As for the idea that trans women aren't women, well, that may be your view but thankfully is isn't the law."

In the UK, that is exactly what our law says: so-called "transwomen" are men - this is what is written in UK law. This is what the UK's Gender Recognition Act 2004 actually says.

Read sections 12, 15, 16 and 19

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2004/7/contents

Beyond that the UK Equality Act 2010 clearly distinguishes between the protected characteristics of sex and so-called "gender reassignment".

www.legislation.gov.uk/ukpga/2010/15/section/4

Once again, I have never opposed support for LGB people. What concerns me about the LGBAlliance in particular is that if a young trans person phones them for help (mistaking them for an inclusive lgbt+ helpline) they are highly unlikely to receive UN-biased help, they won't immediately be re-directed to a more inclusive helpline but will no doubt get the usual lgba spiel of "more likely to grow up as lesbian or gay", which is no help to a young trans person.

Why would a trans person be calling LGB Alliance helpline for help or advice about a trans issue? And if a trans person called about a LGB issue, why wouldn’t the person provide ‘UNbiased’ help?

You can provide no evidence for your claim that LGB Alliance would either NOT refer them immediately to a helpline that is more suitable for the unique need of that trans person if they are not calling about an LGB issue, OR would say anything about ‘more likely to grow up as lesbian or gay’.

Instead, you have continued to make hugely prejudiced claims. You have accused an organisation of being unable to provide a service for LGB young people on LGB issues, to the same standard as any other LGB only group, yet you don’t seem to be able to link up one shred of evidence to support your claim.

It's like NATO - an attack on one is an attack on all of us.

If you haven't heard of the word 'solidarity' I suggest you google it.

You don't show 'solidarity' by not attending conferences and events or having discussions with other groups or individuals that you disagree with.

This is how 'echo chambers' are created and how group think eventuates.

A mature approach is to continue to engage with respect and ensure that the organisation's voice is heard and that lines of communication are left open.

I really do see now that when some posters who visit FWR, not necessarily on this thread, start accusing MN of being echo chambers, they really are projecting.

It's like NATO - an attack on one is an attack on all of us.

There were good reasons why Ukraine was not admitted to NATO

When a transwoman attended the LGBA conference last year she was treated appallingly with a man screaming in her face that she shouldn't be there.

If that's true - and at this point I'm honestly past the point of asking for evidence because there never is any - would you like to compare it to how the homosexual people who want to be homosexual without TQ+ dominance, harassment, exclusion and repression have been treated by those acting in the name of TQ+ politics?

The barbed wire wrapped baseball bats for beating them that were so proudly held by males in blood stained t shirts?

The death threats?

The corrective rape threats?

The symbols and threats of lynching?

The throwing out of lesbians from Pride?

Every single women's rights meeting that has dealt with kettling, screaming, hammering on the doors and walls, people in balaclavas controlling access, false reports to the police trying to get them arrested, the 60 year old woman who was punched, the smoke bomb set off near Grenfell towers?

Fgs, your double standards are ridiculous.

"Should a pro-choice org go to a conference hosted by a Government seeking to restrict access to abortion?"

I'd say it was essential for them to attend.

What's your alternative? Put your fingers in your ears and hope it will all turn out ok?

When a transwoman attended the LGBA conference last year she was treated appallingly with a man screaming in her face that she shouldn't be there.

What has Stonewall achieved in the UK since LGB Alliance's creation just for LGB people (despite having the amazing goodwill and power that they have earned for decades).

Incidentally, strange that you are so keen to detach the work that may have even been done by the founders of LGB Alliance from the result (after many years of campaigning) that was finally achieved. I actually cannot work that one out. Do you believe that it was only actions from those in Stonewall over the past 3 years that brought about that final result??

And, of course, nothing at all to do with any action from any of those in the LGB Alliance.

But as amazing as it was that people were rescued from Afghanistan, we are of course, focused on the UK. And the continued mention of it is a bit of a squirrel distraction.

So, you have again mentioned a success that the founders of LGB Alliance was most likely involved in.

Anything else? Just for LGB people in the UK?