LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

Just reposting.

Yes, @Starlee , @Hearach15 Do you agree with Nancy Kelly that lesbianism is akin to sexual racism?

And, as asserted at the Allison Bailey
tribunal, that it is like apartheid?

Do you understand when the head of one of the largest organisations in the world who are meant to be advocating for lesbians, claims that same-sex attraction is like racism, that there is then an urgent need for an organisation that advocates for lesbians?

Or are you still hung up on the fact that the definition of lesbian does not include males?

I really have nothing else to say to you, you have been rude and arrogant all the way through, twisting what I say and resorting to insults

Righto! I have read through the 29 pages of this thread.

Please point out where I have been 'rude and arrogant'.

Or. Do you consider my continued pointing out that you have not provided one shred of evidence to support you continued deep prejudice against an organisation, your resorting to hyperbole, emotional reasoning, polarised thinking, name calling, and sometimes quite clear dishonesty as my being rude and arrogant?

Why should anyone not hold you providing evidence to support some outrageous claims that you have brought to this thread?

Why should you be allowed to label people as 'anti-trans' without providing evidence and not be expected to front up that evidence if you want to be considered credible as a poster?

Yes, I too would like to know if the extremely persistent posters denigrating LGB Alliance have anything to say about the Stonewall CEO's thoughts on lesbianism as "sexual racism."

Specifically, do you agree that same sex attracted girls are harmed when same sex attraction is compared to racism? And do you agree that they deserve access to a helpline run by people who would never do that?

So now you're telling me I shouldn't enjoy pride events? Nothing you can post can "disprove this rather fanciful and not just a little propaganda like statement." it is a statement of my opinion of pride events, who on earth do you think you are to 'disprove' that?

Err.. no. I am not telling you anything like that you 'shouldn't enjoy pride events'....

That is what you have taken from my post? Bizarre.

No. I am stating that you seek to portray another very prejudiced viewpoint. This time that everything is wonderful with the trans community and that there is no dissension ever within the groups and that everyone is supremely inclusive.

Again. I am seeking to show just how blinkered your approach is and it doesn't seem to reflect the reality.

Of COURSE, you will enjoy pride events.

People who have been doing the reading, have been following the news events also know just how that same community you are declaring are inclusive and loving are most definitely not. You have repeatedly ignored Nancy Kelley's quote and have tried to declare other lesbian's views as being irrelevant when they are showing you what Stonewall has been saying, what else has been happening.

You even seem to ignore that a man wearing the supposed wrong apparel was assaulted and had his property stolen at a Pride event.

Of course, no is saying they are all bad, but we are most certainly calling out the claim that everything is wonderful, full of love and inclusion.

I’ve got a request for all of the GC people on this thread.

Would each of you mind repeating my question about Nancy Kelley’s equating lesbianism with racism, in your own words? Just in case for some weird reason my posts on the topic are invisible to @Starlee , @Hearach15 & their friends?

Thank you.

so they decided to discriminate against trans women? Wow, at least they are open about it.

They discriminated against all men, by not allowing them in the women's toilets. And against all women, by not allowing them in the men's.

Somehow everyone else was okay with this discrimination, presumably because most people have no wish to violate the privacy of the opposite sex.

Well, I guess it's been shown very clearly which people are willing to discuss ideas and statements, and which are too close-minded to.

Just posting this to see if Hearache will answer

I really have nothing else to say to you, you have been rude and arrogant all the way through, twisting what I say and resorting to insults while pretending to be oh so much more educated than the "poorly educated" trans community!

Are you projecting again? I think so.

Rude and arrogant? Just adding to whinging and other things...

twisting what I say... No, I am pointing out the deficiencies of logic and evidence in what you say.

And I will continue to do that because I know that this thread will be read over time by thousands of people. And your arguments don't stand up to scrutiny. Feel free to do the same thing with my posts. If you may have noticed, I have repeatedly asked you to provide evidence to substantiate your posts on page after page after page.

Where have I said that I am more educated than the 'poorly educated trans community'?

This is not the first time you have posted dishonestly.

And wasn't it you who keeps telling me how supportive this forum is of trans people? Try reading your comment again and tell me you're trans supportive!

Starlee. You seem to have a very simple outlook on life. That is what I am pointing out.

So... being trans supportive means ignoring that there are some trans people and some trans activists (many who are not trans) who are making outrageously hateful statements and not being called out for them?

Being trans supportive means ignoring that these statements are being made and then echoed by a large group while declaring that the community is wonderfully 'inclusive' and everything is based on love and happiness?

No. Actually I am not going to ignore them. Why are you?

Is not being trans supportive fighting to have the best health care alternatives, and a range of them? Isn't being trans supportive fighting to ensure they are not discriminated against for employment, accommodation or many other aspects in life (in situations where sex doesn't matter)?

Again you have shown you have a very polarised viewpoint and can only accept absolute acceptance of demands, even when those demands are actually made by a small extreme group of trans people and are not reflective of all trans people.

Children often know if they're gay or trans, but for trans kids who don't know they're far more likely to get unbiased helped from an inclusive lgbt+ group than an anti-trans group.

Before puberty and the awakening of sexual attraction children might teally not know which sex they may be attracted to or not, but this is surely not the case for trans people, as most trans people state that gender identity is innate from birth. So why would a trans child contact a LGB charity instead of a T charity as they will have no doubt about the fact that they are not the same gender as their biological sex?

This cuts to the heart of it. We already have a Switchboard that caters to LGBT people that would be able to help an upset or confused young trans person.

Exactly. There is already a service of a young trans person.

You are continuing to state that a service just for LGB people should not be set up, that people who what only LGB advice should not have a choice of service.

Not only is that completely anti-competitive. It is incredibly totalitarian.

Do you honestly believe you are on the 'right side of history' with those opinions?

What LGBA are proposing is an inferior service that excludes trans people. thus it is a waste of time and money and I am looking forward to seeing it go down the plughole.

Sure. If it is an inferior service, then it will fail on its own. Why is there all this authoritarian energy to close it down from the start?

And you have no evidence that 'trans people' will be 'excluded' from assistance with LGB issues, and not directed to trans services it assistance is needed from a trans specific service.

A waste of money.... what... like the many rainbow crossings that are slippery when wet (I have slipped over on my local on) and that sight impaired people have found very hard to use ?

There is no evidence that it will not be a high quality service. No evidence at all.

What LGBA are proposing is an inferior service that excludes trans people. thus it is a waste of time and money and I am looking forward to seeing it go down the plughole.

This is so sad it's becoming funny.

A service focused on LGB people is inferior is it? Any service not centred upon and all about trans people is inferior? Any service that recognises and supports the specific needs of homosexuals is a waste of time and money?

You're insane. And quite appallingly homophobic. But do crack on illustrating it, you're explaining in detail why homosexual people should absolutely have resources separate from the T. Because those people don't just exist for T people to have something to stand on. Humans who are not T do actually have value and needs too. The planet does not revolve exclusively at all times around the T.

I'd point out too that because of people like you and Stonewall, the 'LGBT community' is now only the politically compliant because you've driven everyone else out.

So that 'community' is now just the politically compliant. It's not representative of LGBT people as a whole. There has been no survey done of how many LGBT people now avoid Pride and Stonewall like the plague and want no part of the rainbow wagging glittery stuff, like there's no record of all the lesbian groups gone underground.

So again you're saying something that quite obviously isn't true. You cannot call it an LGBT community and speak for it - it's an LGBT Politically Compliant with Gender Ideology Community.

And that community is the one frantically trying to stop any LGBT organisations at all being able to exist to represent the LGBT people who have got away, and to stop them having a voice or anything at all for the sin of being heretics. Who insist on being homosexual and not pretending that sex doesn't exist.

As I said, some people really can't stand women organising on the basis of their own sexuality, and excluding all and any males.

Hence you being desperate for something that you consider unimportant and unpopular, to go 'down the plug hole' and 'down the pan'.

Most people who felt an organisation was this ineffective wouldn't spend so much time being obsessed with it.

My advice is to ignore it. Getting this wound up over something that you keep having to claim is really minor, while desperately wishing it would fail, can't be good for you.

Yes. And it was notified.

And this male decided to ignore it.

And security was alerted.

And your continued doubling down about it is just showing readers that when the exemptions are put in place and notified, some people will ignore them and make a big deal about it.

Thereby ensuring that all females who wish to use single sex spaces understand that those people have absolutely zero respect for others, and those who disrespect the needs of females are fully supported by other people who also believe that females should never have single sex spaces.

That is actually what your continued posting about that particular activist is highlighting.

There is little demand for GC nonsense in the LGBT community.

Ah. So you think Lesbian, Gay and Bisexual people only deserve to have resources if they are compliant with a specific political position? One which, in fact, negates their right to be homosexual and pressures them to have unwanted sex on the grounds that being homosexual is a kind of racism?

And when you say 'LGBT' you don't actually mean 'lesbian, bi, gay and trans people' but 'a collection of people compliant to a political position'. Because your 'community' clearly excludes LGBT people who aren't and sees them as mere human rubbish.

And then you wonder why some LGBT people want separate resources as far away as possible from your exclusionary, authoritarian, intolerant, 'you can only exist and have resources if you do what we say' political party?

I'm one of them. I want nothing to do with your political purity games at all. I can also be homosexual without doing what you say and being The Right Kind of Person according to you. I really can. I find your nutjobbery highly scary stuff.

Do you ever read what you write? Ever?

The UK EA allows single sex spaces to be just that, single sex. There is exemptions allowed under that provision for 'discrimination' as you put it.

How hilarious that both you and starlee have attempted to portray 'discrimination' as being wholly wrong. It is such simplistic thinking.

Some 'discrimination' is very acceptable, discrimination can be either positive or negative. And even 'negative' discrimination against one group can be 'positive' discrimination against another group. It is about balancing the needs of the group requiring that 'discrimination'.

If you live in a world where everything is polarised as 'us and them' and 'good and evil', I guess this would not occur to you.

LGB Alliance were founded in 2019 - the year gay marriage was passed for NI - can you show me some examples of the founders being involved in the campaign?

Are you going to deny that the efforts of Stonewall for the NI campaign did not build significantly on the massive efforts of the rest of the UK campaign?

Are you that bereft of how campaigns and organisations work?

I don't need to show you any evidence at all. You are attempting to convince people that Stonewall did completely new work for NI... based on nothing of the past.

You are also attempting to convince people that the campaigning in NI did not start at the same time as the rest of the UK and that that extensive campaign had no influence in NI prior to 2019.

It is not the way organisations work, it is not the way campaigns work and it is a very foolish assertion to make.

The hotline will go the same way as Lesbian and Gay News: www.lesbianandgaynews.com/

That is - down the pan.

There is little demand for GC nonsense in the LGBT community. If there was Lesbian and Gay News (which was set up to cater to GC Gays and Lesbians) would still be with us.

so they decided to discriminate against trans women? Wow, at least they are open about it.

LGB Alliance were founded in 2019 - the year gay marriage was passed for NI - can you show me some examples of the founders being involved in the campaign?

You honestly think that an organisation that has a remit to get the voices of the people they are supposed to represent is showing responsibility to those people by 'boycotting' discussions they should be involved in, or at the very least, presentations/discussion that they can get a greater understanding of opposing views?

It is the very essence of irresponsibility.

And why the 'no debate' approach was shockingly harmful.

But please do crack on with your one liners. We can see just how convincing your arguments really are.

And another post that doesn't highlight what you think it does.

If you bothered to read up thread you will have realised that that activist was using female single sex toilets that were clearly notified at the conference as being for females only.

So, what your post points out is that yes, it was the 'incident' we requested rhinestone to confirm they mean and that , yes, this male used the toilets that were clearly notified at the conference for being females only and a man with autism felt that was worth notifying to the security.

And that it further shows that some, hopefully very few but still some, transitioned males will indeed never respect female single sex spaces being set aside for the use solely of females even if it may cause females significant distress.

Well done.

Thank you.