LGB Alliance to plan helpline with Lottery funding

Children often know if they're gay or trans, but for trans kids who don't know they're far more likely to get unbiased helped from an inclusive lgbt+ group than an anti-trans group.

Before puberty and the awakening of sexual attraction children might teally not know which sex they may be attracted to or not, but this is surely not the case for trans people, as most trans people state that gender identity is innate from birth. So why would a trans child contact a LGB charity instead of a T charity as they will have no doubt about the fact that they are not the same gender as their biological sex?

@Starlee, I’m going to give it another try. Did you see the many posts referring to the CEO of Stonewall equating being a lesbian (& therefore not including males in your dating pool) with sexual racism? This is a homophobic view from the top of Stonewall. Why have you not responded to this?

Going back to the reducing trans people/suicide claim... there has been a 5000% uptake in girls identifying as trans since this ideology started being pushed online and in schools. Can you show a corresponding drop in suicide amongst girls over that time?

Also can you explain why we are told by transactivists that it is so vital that adolescents are given powerful drugs, hormones and surgery when over 90%》of trans adults have no medical intervention at all?

@Starlee

I have not denied the existence of same sex attraction at all, I know plenty of them personally, including myself!
And why on earth would I support conversion 'therapy' for lesbians? I don't support it for ANYONE.
I'm getting rather tired of all these ridiculous assumptions people on here come out with simply because I speak up for transgender people. Being trans supportive doesn't mean being homophobic!

Youhave claimed males can be lesbians. That’s homophobic. A lesbian is a female homosexual. You support stonewall. Stonewall tells lesbians to date males, that is conversion therapy therefore by your standards, you support it. I haven’t seen evidence that you do not support it. You have refused to acknowledge the harm done to lesbians and gay men by trans ideology, and are very angry that a group set up to help them will exist. This seems rather homophobic.

You seem very clear in what LGBA will and will not do, and their aims as perceived by you, but I think you are projecting. You seem very invested in bringing down this helpline even though you have shown no proof that LGBA is anti trans, They are pro LGB. Being LGB supportive does not make them anti trans, just as being pro women’s rights does not make women anti trans. The only way these two stances could be anti trans is if we acknowledge that trans ideology and its aims are in distinct opposition to the rights, well-being and support of the other two groups.

You still have not explained how, as a non-trans person, you do not know how a trans person would feel, but you expect us to accept that a man can know how a woman feels, or a woman know how a man feels, just because they say so. To say that a man can know what it feels to be a woman for example, means that there is only one way to be a woman, and it is different from being a man, otherwise how would he know? Unless you are reducing woman and man to sexist and offensive stereotypes, and claiming all women and all men feel and act in exactly the same way, how can someone of the opposite sex know what it is to be that sex. Maybe you know the answer to the eternal question though. You say TW are woman. How so? Is there any characteristic that will include all women and TW but exclude all men and transmen?

@Starlee you sat you have not seen stonewall be homophobic, Nancy Kelly, the head of stonewall told lesbians that If they did not include TW in their dating pool they were ‘sexual racists’. How is someone bullying a female homosexual into dating males not homophobic? What is the difference between that and a man telling a lesbian ‘you’ll like it when you’ve tried it’? Do please explain how one is homophobic and one isn’t. And while you’re at it, please explain why you deem women’s experiences, opinions and feelings as of less value than those of men who are bullying women.

I guess I just can't ever imagine saying to anyone 'Yes, you have the wrong body, because your kind of true self/soul/personality is only ever found in other types of body'.
This is why I need the thinking explaining clearly, because it seems outrageous to me.

The main message I would like LGB children to be able to hear is the same one I stick to as an LGB person:

• It is ok to be exclusively homosexual and to have exclusively homosexual attraction.

• It is ok to not be attracted to any biological members of the opposite sex regardless of their identity and gender. Sex and gender are not the same thing.

• This is not wrong, or something that you must learn to overcome in yourself (ie to stop being homosexual). It is ok and healthy to act on your natural attractions, and to expect to enjoy sex equally to a partner.

• Sex and access to your body is never something you have to agree to unwillingly, out of a feeling of social duty to someone else or because you feel pressured. Someone making it clear that your stating your own boundaries will mean they will make you a target for harassment, shunning and other punishments is coercing and bullying you.

• You do not have to train yourself to try and like body parts that you're not attracted to for someone else's benefit when it comes to your body, sex and relationships. This should not be an expectation on anyone, ever.

• Homosexuality and sex do not have to be always and exclusively seen through the TQ+ political lens. There are other ways to look at it and think about it and they are ok too.

The problem is, at this point, people would be screaming 'hate crime'.

Yes, @Starlee , @Hearach15 Do you agree with Nancy Kelly that lesbianism is akin to sexual racism?

And, as asserted at the Allison Bailey
tribunal, that it is like apartheid?

Do you understand when the head of one of the largest organisations in the world who are meant to be advocating for lesbians, claims that same-sex attraction is like racism, that there is then an urgent need for an organisation that advocates for lesbians?

Or are you still hung up on the fact that the definition of lesbian does not include males?

Andrew Doyle did a twenty minute interview with Bev and Kate last night re the reaction to the funding they've received.
It's well worth a watch.
Nothing but admiration for these two women.

And that too was from a senior manager of Stonewall, Kirin Medcalf!

Am I right in recalling that Kirin Medcalf, Head of Trans Inclusion at Stonewall, said under oath that 'Bodies are not inherently male or female. They are just their bodies.'' ?

So there's no way anyone can be homosexual, because there aren't any sexes.

This is the sort of thing we mean, denying that anyone can be same-sex attracted. It's repulsively homophobic.

(also, there would be no way for any 'type' of body to have a 'match' in terms of a gender/soul/psyche, because bodies are just bodies with no sex).

Yes I know that. And yet the previous 20 or so pages have been insisting that the lgba WON'T be dissuading trans kids, that they'll be totally fair and UNbiased. 🙄

Children often know if they're gay or trans, but for trans kids who don't know they're far more likely to get unbiased helped from an inclusive lgbt+ group than an anti-trans group.

Please point out where I have been 'rude and arrogant'.

Or. Do you consider my continued pointing out that you have not provided one shred of evidence to support you continued deep prejudice against an organisation, your resorting to hyperbole, emotional reasoning, polarised thinking, name calling, and sometimes quite clear dishonesty as my being rude and arrogant?

Channelling Dr. Patrick Grzanka from that recent documentary perhaps? As he said:

"You keep invoking the word 'truth' which is condescending and rude."

Maybe that sort of huff works in "gender studies", but Mumsnet's made of sterner stuff.

starlee your post here is staggeringly dishonest.

Or have you simply hand waved away the quote that has been posted more than once on this thread from Stonewall’s CEO.

“If you find that when dating, you are writing off entire groups of people, like people of colour, fat people, disabled people or trans people, then it’s worth considering how societal prejudices may have shaped your attractions.”

And this comment here from her also: In her email, Kelley suggested that the BBC article would end up being ‘transphobic’ because it represented trans women as ‘sexual predators’, which was a ‘central anti-trans argument’.

She further complained that the ‘highly toxic’ cotton ceiling issue was ‘analogous to issues like sexual racism’.

From this article (non paywalled),
www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-10225111/amp/Stonewall-brands-lesbians-sexual-racists-raising-concerns-sex-transgender-women.html

It is really dishonest to make the implied accusation that no evidence has been supplied, yet the hypocrisy of you even making this claim seems to be lost on you.