Waitrose delivery driver

She spends most of the time in the video ranting against transwomen, although she calls them “men” and “these men”.

Because that is who she is talking about. Men.

Well, go on then. A coherent and logical definition of gender identity.

Like many others I know what the effects of a person holding one is, but I have no real idea of what it is because I have been told, forcefully, often, that it is not an idea based on stereotypes but rather it is summink summink - and that last bit never actually males sense. Usually because what is described is stereotypes but is said to be, well, summink summink

If you can unravel that I would be far better informed than when I went to sleep last night!

In the swimming pool, KJK was objecting, like many others, to a genetic male swimming in the female races, thus displacing a female from the event. Was she outspoken? Yes. Was she protesting loudly? Yes.

If Lia(r) Thomas didn't anticipate a hostile reaction from some people, it suggests they're not clever enough for university.

Your other point really disturbs me, re you quoting her saying that she hates trans people. Of course you can provide a link to confirm this? You will, I'm sure, be able to do that.

Hopefully this grubby period where dishonesty is lauded will soon pass.
Can't come soon enough for me.

I can’t wait. Can’t believe at nearly 50 I have to pretend to agree with mad wrong ideas to avoid being labelled a bigot 🙄

Again, your problem with kJK seems to be that she is honest and won't lie. Integrity used to be a virtue once.

Hopefully this grubby period where dishonesty is lauded will soon pass.

It was obvious from her video that she was transphobic which I watched before my first post. She spends most of the time in the video ranting against transwomen, although she calls them “men” and “these men”.

Yes, and how well did division by sex work out for women? You seem to be forgetting that the purpose and outcome of division was sex was the oppression of women.

The "division" in that sentence referred to recognising the biological differences between the sexes, and providing separate facilities for the two sexes when required. This is a feminist part of a predominantly women's board, so it would be surprising if anyone here was advocating for further oppression of women.

As for division “by gender identity” why would we even consider that?

That's what people who identify as the opposite sex want. See men who want to compete in women's sports, be housed in women's prisons, take part in schemes to promote women in politics or science.

They insist that they should be included in these events not because of their sex, as that is clearly male, but because of their gender identity.

They are quite specifically not requesting a lack of division between men and women, they just want the division to be by gender identity.

So you’d never heard of KJK before this thread? Have only looked her up 22 pages into a thread on which you are the most prolific poster? And you argued so persistently, so doggedly against her, for 22 pages, you were so very invested in proving that her protection of her boundaries in her own home was transphobic, without knowing anything about her?

yeah.

I fail to see how KJK simply being polite to the transwoman delivery driver would have in any way “violated womens boundaries”. It costs nothing to be civil when interacting with a delivery person. And Im talking about at the very start of the encounter, before anyone had any reason to claim they were provoked.

Ive taken the time to look her up as I’d never heard of her before this thread and she’s a deeply unpleasant person. I watched a video of her target and do the same shit to a Transwoman at a US swimming meet for no reason other than she appears to be triggered by long haired transwomen. I’ve seen that she knowingly shared a platform by collaborating on a published video with a known white supremacist who wants a white ethno-state in Canada and defended her collaboration with him saying “it’s good enough they hate trans too”. I’ve watched her mocking the Black Panthers by naming some TRAs “black Pampers” and to this day refusing to see how misappropriating a key part of the struggle for equal civil rights for black people and making it a joke is extremely offensive.

I can describe to you what money is.But you can't describe to me what gender identity is

Not that that you’ve ever asked, but I can describe to you what gender identity is. There are countless articles and entire books written about gender identity by scientists, philosophers, journalists and regular people. It’s in the dictionary FFS for anyone to look up if they so wish.

I think the issue is that you know very well what gender identity is, and I’m sure you can actually describe it but you have an internal personal belief that rejects it.

I can describe to you what money is.

But you can't describe to me what gender identity is, other than a craving for stereotypes.

Nor how it changes - sometimes daily, even hourly. 😁

And I don't think anyone has even attempted, much less succeeded, to explain why we should segregate on that basis (whilst keeping a pretence at sex segregation in place, as much as possible, obviously, in order to provide the validation).

That's right. The ideology advocates for the violation of women's boundaries surrounding their their spaces, indeed, to their very name, as a means of validation.

You have to validate a man who says he's a woman, by giving him access to spaces where he's not wanted. There would be no boundary violation, if validation wasn't demanded.

On this thread alone, you've complained that Posie should have validated the delivery driver by calling him the sex he isn't, but she is.

😀

ok discover

Lol. I’d go off if someone said what I said to her to me?
Much worse has already been said to me on this thread many many times and I’ve ignored it.
So no, I think I’ve proven I would not.

@Datun
Gender identity is a made up term.

All terms that describe real intangibles are made up terms. These include terms such as money, intellectual property, sexuality, all emotions, the economy, political spectrum, and so on.

@Datun,

Please point out where in this “validation” is? Because the below is what you said was the basis of trans ideology:

Because the point is the entire ideology advocates for the violation of women and girls boundaries

Which I objected to. Not seeing “validation” in there at all……

@Discovereads Throughout history we have divided by humanity by sex. Can you justify a switch to doing it by gender identity? Use logic, reason, morality and compassion in your answer, and consider the needs of all groups protected under the 2010 Equality Act?

Yes, and how well did division by sex work out for women? You seem to be forgetting that the purpose and outcome of division was sex was the oppression of women.

As for division “by gender identity” why would we even consider that?

That’s not the case that harassment must occur in order for a business to refuse service. You can refuse service for any reason so long as it is not discriminatory. Refusing service to a customer because they verbally abused an employee is not discriminatory.

Gender identities are infinite, this from Google

How many gender identities are there?

There is no fixed number of gender identities. They occur on a spectrum, which really means that the possibilities are infinite. Each person might find that a certain point on the spectrum feels most comfortable and accurate, and this may change over time. People do not know precisely what influences gender identity. Some genetic factors and factors that a person is born with may play a role.

if gender identities are infinite why do we not have infinite spaces for each one?
Why is it only ever trans women who are mentioned?
What is a gender identity? In any language you like.
If women have to budge up for any gender identity, which will men have to budge up for? Women cant carry this burden alone, we already don't have enough space just for women alone, add in all the men who have a different gender identity there will only be 10 men left for the men only spaces, seems very unfair given the previous point that we already are lacking in spaces.
Can you imagine most of the male prison estate of around 14k men all wanting in the womens estate of around 4k? Itll be like a cattle market.
How can we "see" a gender identity? What gives away that a man is a trans woman? Or in fact any other gender?

Who's being rude? I think it's completely obnoxious to expect the whole world to bow down to your personal delusion. I hate this term 'misgendering'. I agree with Helen Joyce's essay that pronouns should be mainly expected by family and friends, not strangers who don't have any obligation to keep up a fantasy.

Particularly when that person is being so unprofessional.

Do they though? I would have thought service providers obligations are similar to employers. They can't just stop delivering to any black person who swears unless they stop delivering to everyone who swears. They can't stop delivering to christians - unless the christians harrass the drivers. They can't stop deliving to GC people likewise, unless harrassment has occurred.

It this case harrassment has not occurred - assuming we trust KJKs account, so ceasing deliveries would be to discriminate against her for beliefs. Indeed it is the driver here who is the concern with regards his interactions with women customers.

@Discovereads Throughout history we have divided by humanity by sex. Can you justify a switch to doing it by gender identity? Use logic, reason, morality and compassion in your answer, and consider the needs of all groups protected under the 2010 Equality Act?

KJK was being rude by deliberately misgendering a transwoman. It’s commonly accepted that that is a rude thing to do

Being rude is not a crime, if it was I'd never be let out of prison. I'm a fuck sight ruder than kjk was in this instance.

It is not commonly accepted that "misgendering" is either a word or rude thing to do.
FWIW if a certain section of society like to make up words, they can also make up some words for being transwomen, therefore leaving alone women, woman, female.

Absolutely Datun but it's typical of gender/trans ideology advocates - contradictory as fuck, circular and illogical.

What are the TWAW and TWAM mantras about if not the basis of trans ideology that gender identity trumps sex and trans people must use the spaces and services aligned with their gender identity and not their sex?

It is. If it wasn't, we could all just pack up and go home.

The whole point of the term gender identity is that it's validated. Otherwise it's useless. And the way to validate it is, with a quick sleight of hand, by determinedly using biological sex. Mostly of the female variety.

It's the height of enough for discovereads to complain that Posie wasn't validating the delivery driver, an entire thread about it, in fact, and then in the next breath say that validation is not a central tenet of the ideology.