Waitrose delivery driver

in an abusive transphobic attack

there finished your sentence for you.

*Man: adult male human. Woman: adult female human.

Person refusing to leave someone else's property when told to do so: someone who enjoys crossing boundaries for the sake of it.*

Yes I too am interested in comments about this.

Ffs. She didn't run after him yelling you're a man. He tried to engage her over her political viewpoint about transgenderism.

Jeez. No wonder Ricky Gervais did the skit he did.

Yep, she's got a cast-iron defence against "misgendering" - everything in the house, including what she's wearing, being plastered in the definitions she's using for "man" and woman"!

There's no possible way that she can be possibly misconstrued as saying anything about anyone's "gender"...

Man: adult male human. Woman: adult female human.

Person refusing to leave someone else's property when told to do so: someone who enjoys crossing boundaries for the sake of it.

Any comment on that bit? You defended that.

Can I go to your house, or indeed a transwoman's house, initiate an argument, and then refuse to leave? Would you be in favour of that?

So what if the driver was misgendered? Feelings were hurt, move on. Misgendering is not 'literal violence.

Exactly. This is such a horrible invasion of her space and boundaries yet we know the police will back him, not her.

KJK told a transwoman to her face that they were not a woman but a man. That’s clear cut misgendering.
It's actually acknowledging biological reality. Which is allowed, for those for whom gender is not confused with sex.

I doubt KJK has ever "gendered" anyone at least in the last 5 years, "mis" or not.

She's renowned for only sexing people.

You acknowledge that KJK was using the terms woman and man? It follows that she was using descriptors of sex classes…

Sigh, watch the video @PurgatoryOfPotholes
As Kelly-Jay was speaking to this driver, and thus using the pronoun you, no misgendering could have been happening.

KJK told a transwoman to her face that they were not a woman but a man. That’s clear cut misgendering.

I want everyone on this forum to think about all this and ask, where is the line?

Is there anywhere where a woman's wishes outweigh a male transitioner's?

We can't have female-only spaces in public. Not even rape crisis provision. We're mockingly told that it is up to stores and businesses to use the single-sex exceptions, and they don't have to exercise them if they don't want to. So we have feminist meetings and conferences, and we exercise those exceptions at the meetings. So male transitioners attend and insist on using the women's toilets there! It's just a giant dominance display.

And now we have an activist saying a woman is rude and bigoted if she asks a male transitioner to leave her own property.

Let's just zero in on Discovereads opinions here.

she was very rude and bigoted towards a transwoman by deliberately misgendering them, telling them not to use womens spaces and ordering them off her property. I think the driver was right to lodge a complaint on those grounds alone. I think Waitrose was right to send her a warning letter.

As Kelly-Jay was speaking to this driver, and thus using the pronoun you, no misgendering could have been happening. So that leaves Discovereads claiming that Kelly-Jay was "very rude and bigoted" because she said not to use women's spaces and ordered someone else to leave her property. Women are now expected to nod and smile when male transitioners are on our private property? It's all safe space this, safe space that, except for women!

What would she have to do to not be a bigot? Lie down on the driveway and be a literal doormat for the driver?

Yup. I’ve just made an order before reading this. It’ll be my last.

This is absolutely bloody horrifying, an aggressive male refusing to leave your home. Was she alone at home too? I'm also absolutely gobsmacked that any so-called "ally" would come here and defend this. I couldn't care less how polite or impolite Posie was to this trespasser.

Given that this is unlikely to have been a coincidence, I think Waitrose should be challenged on whether customer data has been misused. Surely delivery drivers shouldn't be free to rummage about in the data to satisfy their own vendettas.

For the trans ally, everything KJK said was reasonable, repeating this on a feminist message board is not going to light any so called 'epiphanies'. Woman: Adult Human Female is hardly aggressive.

Everything in your post just confirms to me that some T people just don't like to hear the word no, 'need' validation. And that's before we even go into how unprofessional and rude he was. I worked in customer service and although I certainly didn't take any rubbish from rude customers this is not what happened here, he deliberately started a fight with a customer.

As a male on her property, would also have been intimidating, just unacceptable bizarre behaviour, surely allies can't actually endorse this?

God, this post, though... I hadn't actually realised the law was so clear.

How did we get where we are with this hate speech thing?
It's mystifying.

Yes, absolutely.

And yet for years posters were banned from this very forum for the "crime" of doing just that.

@EmbarrassingHadrosaurus

Fortunately, it was made explicit when the GRA was being debated in the House of Lords in Jan 2004 that no-one, in their capacity as a private citizen, is required to acknowledge a man who claims he is not a man or a woman who claims she is not a woman, even of they have a GRC.

See Lord Filkin and Baroness Hollis below:

api.parliament.uk/historic-hansard/lords/2004/jan/29/gender-recognition-bill-hl#S5LV0656P0_20040129_HOL_228

This means it is extremely unlikely that so-called "misgendering" will ever have any relevance in law in Britain. Apart from that, there is the human rights issue of free speech. Compelled speech is disallowed.

That sounds really scary. If I were her I'd be requesting that man was removed from deliveries within a 2 mile radius of my home, at the very least. Very worrying he has access to her address. Yes, she clearly is a tough cookie and takes no shit, but the fact is someone who could easily overpower her did this power play and made veiled threats about her daughter.
That would fucking terrify me.
Waitrose off my 'posh treats' shop list now, along with M and S and their spunky spanks. So down to Sainsbury's unless there is something I should know about them?
I'd also be logging it with the police as it could escalate to harassment/stalker level. Not that they'll do much in their rainbow cars but good to have a record.

@YetAnotherSpartacus "...First, she had signs up in her window she said they said “woman: adult human female” so on. As she is entitled to have. Free speech innit. Afterall, there's plenty of rainbow flags about. What's difference?..."

The point you raise about rainbow flags is bang on.What would be the response if a delivery driver confronted a customer about a rainbow flag?

So......the delivery driver started it then?

I wonder if Discoverreads has any idea who we're talking about here. I can't imagine a world where Posie/Kellie wouldn't take this man to task for using female spaces, nor would she let the rest of it go. Ever. Good on her.

This man was completely in the wrong & Waitrose need to take action.

But even if Discovereads’ account was 100% true and accurate, the delivery driver’s behaviour was appalling!

Discovereads, do you genuinely not understand this? Your account, intended to support the delivery person, reveals their aggression clearly. So the frightening thing is that must seem acceptable to people like you.