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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

I have a question about same sex attraction and trans rights in the context of gay men and transmen

129 replies

Diagnosticdigressions · 08/06/2022 09:16

Like lots of parents, I'm having plenty of lively discussions with teen daughter at the moment about the question of whether transwomen are women etc and the complexities of that. Have also had conversations with lesbian friends about the impact of this debate on them. Was somewhat alarmed at the statement from the head of Stonewall recently that seemed to infer that lesbian women who don't date (trans)women are transphobic (I think he also likened it to racism and excluding people from your dating pool on the grounds of ethnicity).

Anyway, it got me thinking about how gay men feel about dating transmen (or just other 'men' if that is your take on it) - specifically those who have not undergone gender reassignment surgery? I've not heard anything about that and, based on past conversations with gay friends, I just can't imagine them being up for dating a (trans)man with breasts and female genitalia.

But, I admit I haven't had a conversation like that in many years and maybe times are changing and I'm out of touch. So, where are gay men in all this? This is genuinely not meant as a goady post - I actually don't know and am interested to know why this doesn't seem to get anywhere near the same level of coverage.

OP posts:
IcakethereforeIam · 08/06/2022 09:53

There was a discussion about this a little while ago, I've no idea which thread. Anecdotally, there suddenly seemed to have been gay men complaining about expecting to be in relationships with tm. Another poster pointed out this would track with the first cohort of tm now being of an age to want to start dating. I've not looked but I've not been aware of any gay men saying they're okay with it. They may be out there though.

Artichokeleaves · 08/06/2022 09:52

Incidentally the 'journalist' with the Guardian was highly indignant at the suggestion that as a gay man he should consider a biological female (however they identify) as a sexual partner and said it was homophobic, however expressed the belief too that female homosexuals should be willing to have sex with biological males to serve this political belief system.

(Come and see the misogyny inherent in the system.)

Several gay male friends find this quite funny and are just flatly "Yeah, no, never going to happen". However they do not have the same sex based experience that biological females do, that saying no to someone of the opposite sex who wants sex from you can be a dangerous thing to do, can at best lead to name calling and shouting (who has not been called a frigid bitch when saying no to someone who told you you'd pulled) and at worse to violence or even rape. Gay men are not afraid of sexual aggression or violence when saying no to biological females. And you never see TM threatening to punch or rape or beat with a baseball bat gay men who say no to them.

AlisonDonut · 08/06/2022 09:41

Anyway, it got me thinking about how gay men feel about dating transmen (or just other 'men' if that is your take on it) - specifically those who have not undergone gender reassignment surgery? I've not heard anything about that and, based on past conversations with gay friends, I just can't imagine them being up for dating a (trans)man with breasts and female genitalia.

Timely.

One prominent gay man, who is a 'journalist' with the Guardian newspaper, once said that he thought it was disgusting that people should suggest that he would ever have sex with a transman, as he was gay.

One prominent straight man, who is or was [not sure if he still is] in politics, said that he thought transwomen were women, except for relationship purposes.

Many gay and straight men are allowed to make these decisions. Lesbians however, not so much. And [few] transwomen want straight women as that infers that they are still male.

MagpiePi · 08/06/2022 09:35

Because the most important thing about gay men, is that they are men. They get to choose who they want to date without being labelled as exclusionary.
Obviously it is only women (as in adult human females) who need to be available to anyone that wants to shag them.

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