I have a question about same sex attraction and trans rights in the context of gay men and transmen

Ah, I get it. Another one of the terminally flummoxed posters who post innocently and ask the same question over and over again despite women giving them thorough and wide-ranging answers.

Transmen aren't going to/ aren't capable of raping and possibly impregnating a gay guy. In a struggle between a gay man and a transman, the transman is likely to come off worst because of the man's extra strength gained by going through a male puberty. Transwomen can be laughed off.

Whereas a lesbian being coerced into sex by a 6'2" bepenised person isn't so funny. Rape and the possibility of pregnancy loom large. And of course women have been educated from birth to comply and be kind and reasonable in a way that no boy is.

There's another answer for you. Less baffled now? Just because gay men aren't complaining about this on a daily basis doesn't mean they're seriously pissed off about it.

My DS is gay. So I asked him if he'd sleep with a transman. He said yes. He said he'd also sleep with a non binary person who is female. It left me very confused, because he insisted he was gay, not bisexual. Yet he claims he'd sleep with a female if she utters the magic words "I'm non binary" yet wouldn't with an identical woman who says she's a woman. 🤷‍♀️

Really, I think he's actually gay, but very into people are who they say they are, so says these things with no actual intention of ever sleeping with anyone female bodied no matter how they identify.

I might be proven wrong. He hasn't actually had a relationship with anyone yet.

(He also said he was non binary and told me I was too when I said I didn't feel like a woman. So close, and yet so far.)

What do you mean 'gay'.

If it is two females, and one is a trans man then they think they are a straight couple. So you must mean two humans, one male and one transman - which is a straight couple - this is the issue that straight people are basically claiming to be 'queer'. So it obliterates the LGB movement.

Now I don't mind who sleeps with who. The rush to be oppressed really does undermine actually oppressed populations.

I'm a lesbian and active in the LGB Alliance and after a slow start, there is more and more outrage among gay man at the idea that they can learn to love vagina. Here's Mr Menno's take on it:

As a lesbian I've been trying to raise the issue of all the men presenting as women who are trying to get into lesbian spaces and groups and have effectively driven the lesbian-only scene underground. Gay men are now starting to have the same response to the new generation of transmen who are looking for (effectively heterosexual) sex from them. It's homophobic to turn up at a gay male bar and tell gay men that they shouldn't turn you down because you have a vagina and it seems strangely naive too. Anyone who knows gay men knows it's all about dicks. It's as if these transmen have no respect for others' sexuality.

Suggest she googles 'Secret Gamer Girl'.

Go on, do it for her.

If she think that 'Secret Gamer Girl' is fine in the toilets/changing rooms/gender neutral accommodation with other Girls...then...you have alot of work on your hands.

Almost like it is a man's rights movement.

Ok ok, not almost. It IS.

They're not gay couples if they are different sexes.

Even if they are demanding access to men's bodies, men will just say no. And there will be no outcry because they're men.

There was a story a couple of years ago about a transman being kicked out of a gay sauna. I think the sauna apologised but there were no protests, no calls for the sauna to be shut down, the men who complained weren't targeted and harassed.

I think the way transmen are treated by the gay male community tells you everything you need to know about people who are adamant that TWAW/TMAM.

None of them actually believe it.

I know two gay couples where one is a trans man. They seem perfectly happy. I know a couple where one of the women is trans.
I also know the majority of my lesbian friends probably wouldn’t go out with a trans woman, aren’t feeling pressured to, and aren’t expected to within the LGBT + community.
can’t always believe what you read on Twitter or anywhere else.
Generally, IMHO, gay, lesbian and trans people have always got along okay… it’s the straight but ‘queer’ activists that really get on my tits.

As we see a new cohort of transmen grow up, with the sense of entitlement that being male brings

Transmen are women, how can they have male entitlement?

at a time in history when we are (finally) starting to scrutinise inherent bias and how different groups are affected

Right, but a lot of this stuff is designed to subvert that. Transmen are told to shut up and go to the back and let transwomen speak, because of their "male privilege".

(Seriously! Check out Benji/GNCcentric's interview with Benjamin Boyce - when she was being trans, she moved in those circles, and describes it eloquently).

There are many 'straight' men who want to date transwomen.

There are many gay men who think this simply doesn't affect them, and turn a blind eye.

The reason it's not discussed, as other PPs have said, is that this is all about men getting what they want, and women not being allowed to say no.

It's only lesbians being shamed for not including transwomen in their dating pool, because to transmen have (so far) not been demanding access to gay mens bodies.

As we see a new cohort of transmen grow up, with the sense of entitlement that being male brings, we may see a small shift. But not a huge one, because the imbalance of power isn't there. It's only women who have to do as we are told, only women who can't so no to male wants and desires. Gay men still hold the male power card.

Plus there's another female dynamic where women police each other's behaviour. So women will go around being mean to women who aren't "being kind".

That's not really a thing men do to each other so much.

So, sure, the "boxer ceiling" is a thing, and transmen do try it, but it just doesn't get the same sort of traction, at all.

You might kind of see it at the "corporate/HR" level, where some incredibly Woke person (quite possibly female!) puts a transman into some "gay" photoshoot, or transmen competitors being permitted into "Mr Gay UK" competitions.

But individual gay men largely say "fuck off".

If 'genital preference' is transphobic, why is the focus on women? Why are we not talking to straight men who don't want to date women with penises?

It's easier for a man to say "no" to a woman, and have that respected, than for a woman to say "no" to a man.

I think that's basically all it comes down to. It's sex-based power dynamics.

So much of this stuff is incredibly revealing about that - the asymmetries that arise are sharply delineated by sex, despite everyone denying their sex.

Even Owen Jones has admitted he wouldn't have sex with a transman.

I don't think he quite said that. He said it was homophobic to ask and threw a little paddy.

In fairness he says most questions are homophobic, transphobic or imperialist. The fact that he's held a particular opinion 5 minutes earlier about someone else doesn't seem to inhibit him from thinking a position is morally wrong if applied to him.

I'm neither gay nor a man, but if a gay man is happy to sleep with a transman then he is not gay.

Most of the gay men ive ever known are really into cock, funnily enough.
I think the reality is that transmen tend to almost always date other transmen

Even Owen Jones has admitted he wouldn't have sex with a transman. When transmen have been thrown out of gay men saunas and Man Friday was thrown out of the Hampstead men's pond - while women are sanctioned for talking about single sex spaces, toilets, prisons, and the cotton ceiling - well then you know it's a man's rights issue.