I have a question about same sex attraction and trans rights in the context of gay men and transmen

I did a quick google - couldn't find anything that coherent but it looks as if SGC is a middle aged man identifying as a girl, right? Publicly so? If so, I imagine DD's take would be that this person is an anomaly overly emphasised by transphobes to present the worst case scenario

Actually there are many, many more that are worse. But Secret Gamer Girl didn't stumble upon his nickname by chance. He is only public about it...because he was doxxed. He didn't publicise that he was a middle aged man when he was secretly trying to talk to girls online.

Plenty of examples on here and if you google 'this never happens mumsnet' there are many links to individual threads...here's 2 of them...

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/3348290-It-will-never-happen-resource-thread

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4557531-this-never-happens

I mean what is it you want to know? Men feel they are entitled to sex. They will work things including legistlation to get it. Some are gay and some are straight. P Tatchell is the 'go to' on matters of sex but he is quite open about thinking that children should be able to make their own minds up about sex [having it if they want it] with middle aged men. Nobody seems to ask someone with actual safeguarding experience and women who object are labelled Bigots, TERFs and Pearl Clutchers. Many gay men object to P Tatchell on many matters especially of age related access but still the BBC will go straight to Tatchell on these matters. If you say their names too many times [esp on here], their internet scrapers pick it up and the post and potentially thread will disappear after being reported as 'hate speech'. If too many people say it, MN gets subjected to DDOS attacks in an attempt to try and get it shut down.

Don't take it too seriously, it's a 4chan rabbit hole.

Not that I buy that, but regardless of where it originated, it gained rapid traction for a reason.

Enough people had seen the compulsory bisexuality arising from the redefinition of "gay" and "lesbian" to as "same-gender attracted" to see the fun in poking back with their new hecking super-valid orientation identities.

That night not make much sense as the tweet in question has been deleted. You can see the awful Pink News' take on it here www.pinknews.co.uk/2021/01/29/boyz-magazine-david-bridle-editor-spiked-trans-lgb-alliance-terrence-higgins-trust/

wow, the 'super straight / super gay' thing is totally news to me

Don't take it too seriously, it's a 4chan rabbit hole.

This is the Boyz magazine thing I mentioned
www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4090953-Gay-mens-magazine-bullied-into-grovelling

There was an interesting thread/ incident a while ago about a gay men's magazine and "transphobic" people - can't remember the details but can find later, but the mags and Twitter discussion would be where you're likely to see this talked about (if at all). A few gay men in the public eye have spoken out about it, but not many, and they're generally left alone, unlike women.

The CEO of Stonewall, to whom you refer as 'he' is Nancy Kelley, a lesbian. It's very easy to check these things yourself.

I'm always a bit when a teenager, who has never yet had a relationship or had sex, is declaring that they're absolutely homosexual but homosexual actually means anyone of any sex.

I wonder who they're trying to please, and I wonder how much the 'gay' label they've chosen is yet secure as opposed to a theory.

And that's fine. I was in my twenties before I was absolutely certain I was homosexual, I worry about kids not even in adolescence yet being encouraged to pick a label and live it in theory. But it's led to this messing about and 'oh be nice about stretching definitions to fit everyone' that now means definitely homosexual people, as in decades of relationships and absolute certainty regarding attraction and what works sexually, are being told that they're committing apartheid by refusing straight sex if a potential partner wishes them to participate in an illusion of theirs.

This is what happens when terms like 'woman' and 'homosexual' and 'disabled' become nice self image identity labels that you can try on and swap around like hats and hairstyles while 'finding yourself'. It's other people's identities you are fucking about with.

Well that would be the answer, wouldn't it. You're looking for what you seek in the wrong places.

So are journalists covering this stuff just avoiding the elephant in the room because they are scared of repercussions?

Well, yes. Talking about any of this is transphobic.

They can barely summon up the courage to talk about the primary issue of lesbians (the BBC cotton ceiling piece being a rare exception), so expecting them to go on to cover the secondarily and less-impacted population of gay men is a bit much. (Straight people are largely unaffected by this, both because they don't find themselves in LGBTQ spaces so much, and because trans people don't get the sort of validation they're looking for from them - they specifically want to be with "gays" or "lesbians").

Same sort of thing for detransitioners. Detransitioners are primarily female, so the little mainstream coverage you see skews heavily female, because we don't have the airtime for the minority too.

I've seen men on twitter say they're gay, they are attracted to trans men and not to women.

I think very personally that sexuality is generally much less rigid than the categories suggest - mine certainly is and I think my very heterosexual side has always been celebrated and rewarded whereas my attraction to women just isn't; it's relatively weak compared to my het side but I grew up in the 70s, relationships with girls and women weren't a very visible option to me. I still wouldn't say that I'm gay or even bisexual and as I'm not gay I am not going to pronounce on it. But I can believe that there are men who are gay who can be attracted to transmen because of their presentation and not to women. I would like to know, though, whether they ever actually have sex with trans men rather than just seeing them as attractive, and whether they ever feel attracted to very butch women, and if not, what is going on there.

For example I'm very attracted to masculine voices - I've never found a man with a high speaking voice attractive, and women who take testosterone often have very rapid change to their voices because their vocal folds enlarge. It's one of the reasons transmen pass better than transwomen. So there's a big barrier there that disappears fast.

It all just seems blindingly obvious to me and kind of alarming that millions of young people are being brought up to believe that physical characteristics can be ignored.

Not just "can be", but "should be", which is the problem. We've potentially gone from "compulsory heterosexuality" to "compulsory bisexuality" without stopping in the sensible midposition.

This is why we're seeing things like LGB Alliance forming in opposition to Stonewall. A lot of people are not on-board with compulsory bisexuality.

See also the "superstraight"/"supergay"/etc thing.

And we have been nearly overwhelmed on this board by people who 'are out of their depth', 'baffled', 'struggling to understand' and on and on: who ask us to explain things and then explain them again and constantly reframe things in order to wear us down, catch us out and get the message to us that we're out of touch, bigoted, unreasonable. We're not.

Watch the Mr Menno video. He speaks for a fair proportion of gay men.

Twitter is absolutely full of gay men - both young (gasp!) & old - who are finally seeing the homophobia inherent in modern trans ideology. It's very cathartic to watch. Plenty of trans people who agree, too.

Perhaps this twitter thread offers some enlightenment. Do gay men want "novelty pussy"? Probably not unless they aren't really gay at all.

twitter.com/thotcrimimale/status/1533510392063807488?s=21

Ah, right. So those of us who acknowledge sex are old fuddy-duddies and the new enlightened generation of young people won't have our old-fashioned hang-ups? Is that where you're heading?