Northumbria University - Sarah Phillimore and Harry Miller 'seen as a 'safety and wellbeing' risk to an entire university.'

violent crime

Trans people deem 'asking questions' as abuse and 'misgendering' as hate crime so in all honesty, I don't really trust that their definition of violent crime is the same as, say, people who are regularly actual victims of violent crime. This is what happens when you cry 'she misgendered me, literal violence' over and over and over again.

The UK still has to play catch up in conducting research with the scale, scope and rigour of this kind, and until it does, of course it is harder to show what is happening with trans victims of crime.

The Crime Survey for England and Wales (formerly the British Crime Survey) is broadly comparable in its methodology and has been conducted since 1982. However, when it comes to crime and social factors, as pointed out already, it isn't just a common language that divides the UK and US.

Out of interest, what factors do you think might be at work behind the crime victim figures for the US, where freedom of speech is paramount and minorities, especially trans people, are frequently vilified and maligned?

A lack of medical and social security safety nets and the concomitant higher level of transgender individuals active as prostitutes is likely to be a bigger factor than free speech protections, I suspect. And levels of violent crime are much higher in the US more generally.

So the University looked at the evidence and decided that they'd acted illegally. Good to see an apology.

Now shoo squirrels....

Well yes, of course. Which is why I posted that first link which relates to a database where hundreds of thousands of people were interviewed in a National Crime Victimisation Survey, achieving real statistical power and indicating that trans people were four times more likely to be victims of violent crime than non trans people.

The UK still has to play catch up in conducting research with the scale, scope and rigour of this kind, and until it does, of course it is harder to show what is happening with trans victims of crime.

Out of interest, what factors do you think might be at work behind the crime victim figures for the US, where freedom of speech is paramount and minorities, especially trans people, are frequently vilified and maligned?

There you go @suggestionsplease1 The University agree with Sarah.

I still keep reading the title of this thread on the board and grinning at the sheer overblown drama of it.

Sarah and Harry. Managing to risk the wellbeing of an entire university .

With words like 'women should have rights too'.

Snowflakes . Either too little real problems in their lives to keep them occupied so they have to go inventing them, or absolutely no resilience of any kind.

Good to see NU agree!

and I think if they can find an expert on free speech who does not need to resort to supporting harmful communications themselves

at your irony! 'We support free speech as long it's kind!'

From the ONS on this data:

"Estimates of the likelihood of being a victim of crime for those whose gender identity is different from their sex at birth (trans or transgender) are based on a small base size of 63 and are therefore subject to lower reliability."

(www.ons.gov.uk/peoplepopulationandcommunity/crimeandjustice/bulletins/crimeinenglandandwales/yearendingmarch2020)

So that's about 17 or 18 people (28% of 63) who reported experiencing crime (excluding fraud), who said that their gender identity is different to their sex at birth.

Do you not think there might have been an excellent speaker on the subject of free speech who does not also continue to support a tweet saying #SayYesToHate on the Transgender Day of Remembrance?

I'm sure there would have been loads of other speakers! SP though was invited and there is no reason she shouldn't have been. Whether she did or didn't support that tweet is irrelevant as it nowhere near meets the threshold to be no-platformed.

D'oh - "getting back to the topic". That's what I get for cooking and posting at the same time.

Fantastic news. And good to see the thread finally getting by to the topic at hand.

No that's not what I'm saying.

Do you not think there might have been an excellent speaker on the subject of free speech who does not also continue to support a tweet saying #SayYesToHate on the Transgender Day of Remembrance?

I reckon there would be many options to choose from.

There are many unethical, immoral, harmful actions and communications that fall short of a criminal standard for prosecution. This person appears to be proud of a tweet that has real power to be harmful and I find that pretty distasteful, and I think I'm not alone, or unreasonable on that.

I think, if a university can find a mussel farmer that employs environmentally sound methods of farming they should invite them to speak over the mussel farmer that uses environmentally harmful ways of farming, and I think if they can find an expert on free speech who does not need to resort to supporting harmful communications themselves, rather than one who seems to support tweets that they should have the insight to know can endorse and encourage transphobic views, they should go with that first option.

suggestions

considering a hate crime can be a sticker or a ribbon, posting that statistic is actually nonsense.

Do trans people experience crimes against them? Yes, of course they do. In this political climate and with the very low bar of recordinng ‘crime’, and that misgendering is considered abuse, can you say with confidence that trans people suffer crimes against them as a group more than other groups?

I do not have that confidence at all.

I am glad that you think trans people suffer more hate crime than other groups. Imagine if women were allowed to report ‘hate’ in the same way and be taken as seriously. It may well shut down the police forces in the magnitude.

Northumberland Uni. have backed down and apologised:

mobile.twitter.com/SVPhillimore/status/1534481109274312710

Anyway someone was explaining to GCs something about being maligned?

Indeed, crime statistics involving the transgender population of the UK are blurred by the huge number of self-reported "hate crimes" such as women displaying posters saying "Woman=Adult Human Female" etc. etc. ad infinitum.

What's a crime though? Inadvertently calling a TW 'he' is usually akin to violence no?

Here's some info from the UK, only twice as likely as non trans people to be victims of crime rather than four times! Lucky them eh?

Do you have any actual crime stats to back that up? Fortunately for males who identify as women, in the UK their chances of being murdered is far less than the general population

Unfortunately history shows that the power of persuasion and rhetoric to malign an outgroup has the potential to influence at every level of education.

"I recall some people saying 'well that's the US and not the UK', as if there's some magical invisible longitude line over the Atlantic somewhere that transforms the experiences of trans people."

There are massive cultural, societal, ethnic, geographical, legal, religious, educational, etc etc etc differences between the UK and the US. Of course there will be different experiences for different groups of people between the two countries.

That's fine for you to say for yourself, but have you no understanding or appreciation of how others may be influenced by expression of views?

Are you seriously suggesting that universities in this country should NOT encourage debate, not encourage critical thinking, that before they enrol potential students should be told exactly what to think, which views they can express? Really? REALLY?

May I suggest you read up on regimes in N Korea, Afghanistan, China seeing as you're so supported of enforced group-think.

I can't recall anyone giving any credible critique against it actually.

I recall some people saying 'well that's the US and not the UK', as if there's some magical invisible longitude line over the Atlantic somewhere that transforms the experiences of trans people.

My recollection is that 1) It's a press release 2) Patterns of crime differ greatly between the US and the UK 3) The UK has very different health and social security systems 4) The UK's legal system is very different and gender reassignment is a protected characteristic in the UK 5) As a result of the aforementioned, and other factors, there are very significant differences and experiences between identifying as transgender in the US and UK.

suggestionsplease1

'That's fine for you to say for yourself, but have you no understanding or appreciation of how others may be influenced by expression of views?'

I would hope that at a university, the students would be able to apply some critical thinking and not just blindly follow a leader. And worry for those that can't think for themselves because they are open to exploitation.

I can't recall anyone giving any credible critique against it actually.

I recall some people saying 'well that's the US and not the UK', as if there's some magical invisible longitude line over the Atlantic somewhere that transforms the experiences of trans people.

Here's some info from the UK, only twice as likely as non trans people to be victims of crime rather than four times! Lucky them eh?

www.theguardian.com/society/2020/jul/17/trans-people-twice-as-likely-to-be-victims-of-in-england-and-wales

GC feminists often seem to to tout their logic and reason, but on this thread can not respond with sound reason or logic to the point of whether that tweet is acceptable

The hate speech tweet?

Pridewashing by pretending to support inclusivity to get up the Stonewall index, by only focusing on one 'diverse group' [Trans] is hateful towards:
Lesbians [cotton ceiling - the workshop run by a Stonewall employee]
Women [can't even support IWD, everything has to be about transwomen not actual women, Stonewall wanting the word women removed from all documentation and legislation]
Gender non-conforming kids [giving kids Lupron which will hault the development of their genitals and results in sterilisation and often goes on to medical interventions which result in castration]

You cannot not understand this can you?