Helen Joyce/Helen Staniland "Trans Elimination" video

No, I don't think it would. And I think many people are getting a little sick of having to sugarcoat everything they want to say, in order to appease a lobby group they heartily disagree with and who are trying to dominate them.

Every single person knows by now that it doesn't really matter what you say. It will either be misinterpreted or edited and seized upon to find any old bollocks offence.

Look at the absolute nonsense that J. K. Rowling had about ignoring porn directed at children - the accusations were coming from the very men who were sending her the dick pics! Or all the crazy that Kellie Jay gets. Every single word pounced on and stuck in the mangle.

So why bother to even try. Just get on and say what it is you want to say.

Let's get that Overton window moved along.

Yes if she'd just said "medically transitioned" it could have all been avoided

Women have been taken to court over ribbons that allegedly resembled something sinister when tied to a fence.

I question whether a liberal use of "medically transitioned" would have pre-empted this brouhaha and would have been sufficient to deter bad faith interpretations.

Yes if she'd just said "medically transitioned" it could have all been avoided

I agree completely with what Helen Joyce was saying, but I think the way she expressed herself was very unwise.

Anyone sensible understands that what she is saying is that anyone who medically transitions is a life-long medical patient, which has huge health implications for them as well as cost implications for the rest of society. Obviously we want the number of people needing that level of care to be as low as possible.

But anyone sensible also understands that the batshit TRA brigade would seize on these kind of comments and say...well, exactly what they have said.

It was pretty tone deaf I think, and not helpful to the GC cause.

I don't know whether Helen's solicitors will deem that post defamatory. But at least it's proving my point about how people are desperately trying to stop anyone listening to her.

god the bad faith ‘GC as they come’ posters are tiring

They took 'woman'.

They are trying to take 'female'.

And now the batsignal has gone out to say 'im GC me but...'

Next phase is already in progress which is to say that Female Sex Hormones give them 'periods without the blood'...and PMT headaches so that they can take 'menstruators' by the time the next census is out.

TRAs were waiting for the moment they could pounce on anything Helen Joyce said to denounce her as evil and someone who shouldn't be engaged

They were, and as I have pointed out on either this thread or the other one, they've already tried the anti semitism accusation but it didn't stick.

Ok @JemimaPuddlegoose I doubt your post will be reported by any of us regular posters, mainly because what you posted needs to be seen by many.

Now, be a good puddlegoose and give us a direct quote of that anti semitism.

Or ask MNHQ to delete your post, as you misspoke. Use the report function. They would probably be happy to comply.

Libellous rubbish

unless you can back up that allegation @JemimaPuddlegoose ? Oh yes, you can’t because it’s bollocks

god the bad faith ‘GC as they come’ posters are tiring

I have no idea how many of them are detransitioners or desisters @TheBiologyStupid. But it is a very busy and tightly moderated forum so the posters, even if not all the subscribers, are young people who have detransitioned or who are going through it/thinking about it.

It makes for pretty sobering reading

My mistake, Sharpe references Joyce's rebuttal in his review of her book and so doesn't appear to be the source of the antisemitism allegation: criticallegalthinking.com/2021/10/08/review-of-helen-joyces-trans-when-ideology-meets-reality-london-oneworld-2021-pp-311-rp-16-99-and-kathleen-stocks-material-girls-why-reality-matters-for-feminism-london-fle/

It reminds me of that clip of Anne Ruzylo calling the activists who bullied her out of her job "bastards".
The trans activists carefully edited it, then claimed she was speaking about all trans people.

Hold on a minute, Jemima. We can't see where the horrendous antisemitism in Trans was. Be a duck and point it out for us.

I'm as gender critical as it gets

No you're not.

I believe that the antisemitism allegation originates from a book review by Alex Sharpe? Joyce claims, and I have no reason not to believe her, that she wasn't being: www.thehelenjoyce.com/a-wild-ride/

What was the horrendous and vile antisemitism?

I'm as gender critical as it gets but I had to stop reading Joyce's book halfway through due to some truly horrendous and vile antisemitism.

Just because someone is GC doesn't mean they're a good person. I find this whole ideology "we must blindly support anyone and everyone who thinks x" deeply sinister.

Although there's nothing to say that all 32,000 members are detransitioners themselves, presumably? (I'm not seeking to detract from the fact that there are very many more of them than TRAs would like to acknowledge.)

Well obviously it tells us that these people were never really trans to begin with. Which means that everything is fine. Or something.

(Just so long as you put out of your head the maxim "you know that someone is trans if they say they are".)

Seriously? I had no idea. Well, what does that tell you?

Bloody hell.

Helen Joyce is a real problem for transactivists. She has rock solid credibility and her book is impressive.

If they think deliberately misinterpreting her it's going to affect her credibility, and not theirs, they are sorely mistaken.

if they think their unhinged ranting is not going to make way, way more people watch that podcast, then that's another mistake.

Helen Joyce wants to get to the decision-makers.

This is the way she's going to do it.

The detrans group on Reddit has nearly 32,000 members.

The fundamental point is that what HJ said is valid and can be justified if detransitioners exist, in anything other than numbers so low they're lost in the statistical noise. That's what "the harm, and that means reducing or keeping down the number of people who transition" is about, that transition for those who would ultimately desist, is likely to be harmful.

Trans activists would win this point if detransitioners, effectively, don't exist. One reason they're so confident is that according to the gender identity ideology, detransitioners in meaningful numbers simply cannot exist.

Writing this reminds me that I always need to have clear in my head the differences between detransitioners and desisters.

TRAs were waiting for the moment they could pounce on anything Helen Joyce said to denounce her as evil and someone who shouldn't be engaged. If it involves wilfully misinterpreting or selectively editing something they couldn't care less about actual truth. So they'll add this to their canon law and forever more say 'Look, Helen Joyce says trans people should be exterminated We will not discuss anything with her and you shouldn't either'.
It's all they can do. They can't debate the points she raises so she has to be shunned and turned into a figure of hate. They do this with EVERYONE who questions their narrative.