Helen Joyce/Helen Staniland "Trans Elimination" video

you don't believe me that 80% of women have a baby at some point in their lives?

you don't believe me that it's pretty normal for straight women to expect their partner to provide the other half of what's required to make a baby?

honestly, it's like all you people have forgotten how babies are made

she was describing what does happen not what ought to happen according to a particular viewpoint. 80% of women do have children, a significant number of them may not want to be in a relationship where there is no chance of bearing their partner's children. Do you disagree with that?

so even leaving sexual orientation aside, they will be a less desirable partner for a straight woman who would normally expect to bear her partner's baby
This is the feminism board, right?
Or have I taken a wrong turn and stumbled onto some Conservative Family Values Site by mistake?

unlikely. at the risk of being indelicate, straight women like to have sex with a person with a functioning penis

regardless of what surgery they have had, no transman has this

in addition around 80% of women get pregnant. no transman can get a woman pregnant, so even leaving sexual orientation aside, they will be a less desirable partner for a straight woman who would normally expect to bear her partner's baby

It's important that people who are going to put themselves through punishing surgery understand the position they will be in when it's done

It would be interesting to link to all sorts of news items about women being treated with great misogyny or with violence based on misogyny, because those, too, matter in how we perceive the overall societal framework in this case.

Yes, certainly transgender people are harassed and even assaulted, and that is disgusting and wrong and should not happen. But women are also frequently harassed and even assaulted, and that is also disgusting and wrong and should not happen.

But it's still worth pointing out that transgender people in the US and the UK are less likely to become the victims of homicide than the average likelihood. This is good news as the violence transgender people report is at least not of the worst kind of all.

The fact that some people appear to wish death on a person for requesting a female HCP and refusing care from a male person is unpleasant, but illuminating. Thankfully its very commonly understood that women may request a female HCP. This is in no way a problem and will only upset an HCP where they are placing their feelings above those of a patient.

The reasons that women may choose same sex HCPs are many, personal, and varied, and it's absolutely abhorrent to either question these reasons or label a woman 'transphobic' for wanting a female.

For anyone reading who is in any doubt; you are free to request a female HCP. This should be a female person, not a man or a transwoman or a male non-binary person, because the relevant characteristic is biological sex.

You should never feel pressured to submit to anyone's demands that you date them, accept care from them, or do anything that in any way makes you feel uncomfortable under threat of them feeling hurt.

a) of course that behaviour is absolutely unacceptable, and it's hardly the same thing as saying someone wants a same sex hcp.

b) another false equivalence: there is a significant difference between someone receiving emergency, life threatening care from a paramedic and having a procedure or examination that involves intimate care, such as a smear or breast exam for example, where a female person needs to intentionally put themselves in an extremely vulnerable position and accept touch in extremely intimate places. And some females for varying reasons including trauma, will simply not be able to turn up to those necessary care procedures if the wishes of a biological male hcp to be allowed to do this to a female patient regardless of the patient's need and history of consent (which frankly in my opinion would mean they should not be working in this field at all) is considered more important than the female's needs, feelings and access to medical care.

This whole 2+2 =5 thing doesn't help.

Trans women aren't males - they're are women!

This all reminds me of when people in America used to complain about having to accommodate LGBT people in the military.

And keep on suggesting situations that are not analogous. We can keep on going for as long as you want.

LGB people in the military are ‘not’ like a group of males who are demanding claims that conflict with the rights of females.

LGB people as part of their claims did not demand that males be housed in female prison estates.

LGB people as part of their claims did not demand males compete in female sports categories.

LGB people as part of their claims did not demand people believe ‘Trans women aren't males - they're are women!’

No. Your comparison here is also not analogous.

Well, yes — because LGB people aren't pretending to be something they're not and because allowing them the same rights as everyone else (which they didn't have previously) didn't impinge on anyone else's rights. It's not comparable with transgender ideology. Trans people already have the same rights as everyone else and seem to require extra rights — such as requiring us to ignore the evidence of our own eyes in order to avoid hurting their feelings.

As Helen Joyce says, there really is no point in arguing with you because you will always argue in bad faith.

GoodJanetBadJanet

So goodjanet are you fully supportive of males being included in female sports categories?

You said "when has anyone ever had a problem with Halal meals?" and I provided you with an example.

Oh? A distractive technique then.
A question is asked, somebody answers the question, and that's somehow a distraction technique?!
When is a question not really a question?
When it's on here, it seems.
Make it make sense 😬

I note that the majority of paramedics are cisgender men:
www.hcpc-uk.org/resources/freedom-of-information-requests/2017/age-and-gender-breakdown-of-paramedics---november-2017/
And yet you're only having a go at a transwoman here. Very revealing.
As I said, you need to get off the keyboard and go and meet some more LGBT people.

Yes, there will be a lot of men who are not trans, those saying "I can choose any HCP I like" yes that's fair enough and that's your right, but in a medical emergency when you need a paramedic like here, would you really turn away a male paramedic if he turned up in the ambulance to help?!
As you might have to wait a longer time for a female one to become available by which time it could be too late for you!
As for spitting at paramedics turning up because they're trans, and saying "what are you?!" how is that not anything but prejudice?!

Can you just clarify what you think the words male and female actually mean?

You can't be a trans woman unless you are male.

So straight women date trans men then?
Maybe some do, how can you speak for all?

As people have mentioned on this thread, some of us here are LGBT people.... it's an ongoing mistake many make that women with concerns about retaining single sex rights are only doing so through lack of having met a TQ+ person.

I have several TQ+ friends thanks. I still think female sex based rights are essential, and that sex and gender are not the same thing.

Trans women aren't males - they're are women!

This all reminds me of when people in America used to complain about having to accommodate LGBT people in the military.

It happened and soon it was all forgotten about.

Of course I am prejudiced against Joyce. She goes around saying horrible things about trans people and I like trans people.

The fakers that wank in the toilets are not nice people.

So you meant the opposite of what you said then. It's very confusing discussing with you when I don't know if you mean what you say or the opposite.

@Hearach15 "Synonyms: "Prejudiced person".
She is clearly prejudiced against trans people. That's why she believes they're all "huge problems"."

But, of course, you are in no way prejudiced about Ms Joyce, or intolerant of her analysis and opinions, despite never having read a word of what she has written. If you had read such you would know that there is no prejudice in Ms Joyce's analysis or opinions.

Helen Joyce believes that all trans people are a "huge problem to a sane world" and I believe that is a very bigoted view.

Trans people are not problems, they are quite wonderful people. She's the problem. 😀

So you keep saying. And you cannot answer the statements put to you where accommodating the demands of males cause harm to females.

You can keep on repeating the empty claim. It doesn’t sound any more convincing than the first time you posted it.

Synonyms: "Prejudiced person".

She is clearly prejudiced against trans people. That's why she believes they're all "huge problems".