So disgusted tonight

So don't act out the role. Be yourself.

It's not being themselves, though, is it?!
Your comment makes no sense as in order for someone to "be themselves" if they're trans, they need the option to be allowed to transition.

@ShinyRainbow "So now you know how trans women feel when they're expected to act out the role of a "man"."

Perhaps men need to be persuaded that "acting out the role of "man"" is unnecessary? Perhaps men should be persuaded to embrace the idea that some of their fellow men behave very differently and that other men should accommodate such behaviour?

It is not for women to be forced, against their consent, to accommodate such men.

So what's your problem with trans women being true to themselves and living as women? Is that "pushing you out" somehow?

‘Evolutionary design" is what you constantly invoke when you argue why trans women can't be women or trans men can't be men.’

No I don’t. The simple fact is that two types of bodies exist. We call one type male and the other female. I didn’t say anyone designed it that way. It just happens to be that way.

‘We have also developed the capacity to define our own identities and reshape our bodies, so why are you trying to deprive trans people of the ability to?’

I’m not. I’ve explicitly said I believe some people are happier if they transition and, providing there is no strong evidence base for the conclusion that it harms many of them, adults should be allowed to do so.

The distortion of the parental urge to protect children from physical harm represented in the above post is truly appalling. No doubt this will be deleted but I can think of no other word to describe portraying a parents desire to keep their child whole and healthy as a desire to make them fulfil their parents wishes.
if you can’t tell the difference between these two desires god help you.

Research shows that transitioning doesn't alleviate dysphoria. Research shows that people especially kids, are given quite strong drugs with minimal actual diagnosis. I'd say that was pretty dangerous behaviour.

So, trying to help people to be happy in their own skin is what - a bad thing?

‘So now you know how trans women feel when they're expected to act out the role of a "man".’

In what way are transwomen expected to do this? What is the role of a man?

So now you know how trans women feel when they're expected to act out the role of a "man".

So don't act out the role. Be yourself. Don't pretend to be someone else, and certainly don't push them out in order to do so.

"Evolutionary design" is what you constantly invoke when you argue why trans women can't be women or trans men can't be men.

We have also developed the capacity to define our own identities and reshape our bodies, so why are you trying to deprive trans people of the ability to?

Sorry, @ShinyRainbow , I didn't get the memo that I had a 'reproductive role', when was that sent out? There I was thinking I had a choice of having or not having children, not realising I have a 'reproductive role' to fulfill!
You do have a choice though, that's the whole point!
Even though there are people who think only men and women should be in relationships, it's the natural order, and that women should reproduce...
You can see it is so wrong when it's against gay people, but you can't see when it's affecting trans people, that they shouldn't transition?!
Ok.

So now you know how trans women feel when they're expected to act out the role of a "man".

‘What do you think the purpose of biological sex is? How do you think reproductive function works? What role do you think sexual attraction plays in it? You go on about how sex is defined by the "potential to produce gametes". Well, what do you think the purpose of those gametes is?’

This is cart before horse. Evolutionary theory would say there is no purpose to life or to any function that exists as part of life. At random, things mutate. Some of the things that happen when that occurs help things live longer. Reproductive dimorphism is just one of those things.

But obviously humans have developed the capacity to understand those processes and some people will choose to avoid reproduction.

Where did I ever imply anything of the sort?

No, it really didn't. You are talking about potential, the ability to. Not a role, with the presumption of it being fulfilled.

As a woman who chose to remain child free I take offence at the idea that I have not fulfilled a role society assigned me based in my sex class. Like I failed an audition, fucked up a job!

Damn, and here you are, @ShinyRainbow , pointing out that I've missed out on yet another memo, that my gay son should become life-long medical patient. God, I'm so behind the times!

His average likes per tweet is 862, the one sharing the video is on 3,733

It came with your gametes, that thing the production of which you claim defines us as "men" or "women".

Sorry, @ShinyRainbow , I didn't get the memo that I had a 'reproductive role', when was that sent out? There I was thinking I had a choice of having or not having children, not realising I have a 'reproductive role' to fulfill! Sorry, I also missed out on the sex assigner forget my kids, clearly a run of incredibly bad luck.

Oh look! All these posts, all these threads and here we are, with a post taking us all back to step one.

Sorry @ShinyRainbow but you are making a very long arm there.

I mean, that's what you're doing to trans people.

What do you think the purpose of biological sex is? How do you think reproductive function works? What role do you think sexual attraction plays in it?

You go on about how sex is defined by the "potential to produce gametes". Well, what do you think the purpose of those gametes is?

This is why the fixation on "gamete production", and that it should dictate our identities in society, is inadvertently homophobic.

Seems his Tory-hating tweets are getting the likes, not the ones comparing GC women to fascists.

Also, that little grifter LOJ only got 3,700 likes for his inflammatory tweet out of his 1mn followers. Seems this particular brand of misogyny is losing its power.

On the contrary, his popularity is increasing.
socialblade.com/twitter/user/owenjones84

We're actually lucky that this has happened over the jubilee, it's probably kept the numbers down.
**
**

I'm not surprised they're gunning for Helen Joyce. She's calm, intelligent, rational, articulate and makes a compelling argument for why we should be very worried about the infiltration of gender identity ideology into our society.

It's interesting that since her book came out Helen has been on countless podcasts, news programmes and interviews and clearly hasn't said anything that could be reasonably seen as offensive up to now. No one is perfect and I'm sure we all say things sometimes that come out wrong. Having read her book and listened to her many times I'm not going to suddenly think she's a raging transphobic bigot on the basis of one snippet in one interview, that would be very odd.

In any case, I understood what she was saying was that if being trans is about feeling a deep disconnect and distress with the reality of your body then that isn't something you would wish for anyone. It sounds really difficult, and the fewer people that have to go through that the better. Therefore if we can do something to prevent people feeling that way that's good. That seems to me a reasonable and compassionate viewpoint.

@ShinyRainbow - wow, did you just compare being gay to being disabled? 'Lots of parents out there who would "prefer" their child to be straight rather than gay too. '