So disgusted tonight

What I think she's saying is 'In the future, when we go back to pre-gender ideology ideas about sex, there will be lots of very unhappy transitioners, who will need a lot of support. Therefore, isn't it better that we reduce the number of people transitioning now to prevent future problems/unhappiness?'

Obviously TRAs have looked at an edited video and cried 'genocidal fascist'.

If you equate it with say, wanting to reduce the number of people with cancer. That doesn't mean killing them. But avoiding it in the first place, faster diagnosis or treating them better so that they recover. And are cancer free.

The people saying that wanting less people who end up on damaging drugs or with damaging surgeries is akin to genocide are completely misrepresenting them. Let alone looking at the mental health issues. There is no research is there that says transitioning is a solution due to the number of people still unhappy after transitioning. Plus the horrors of the botched surgeries that they are left with.

I think it is better to listen to the whole conversation for the full context.

Anyone who attempts to claim that this clip, maliciously taken out of context of the whole conversation, is the sum total in terms of representing Helen's views on the issue of people who are dissociated from their natural sex, is grossly mistaken.

Go to You Tube and search for Helen Joyce's name and listen to all her other conversations on this issue and you will understand. Read her book and you will understand.

I'm not trying to engage you in an argument @Nellle, I'm just pointing out that what you focus on is your choice. But your unwillingness to engage in a debate is giving away your disregard for opinions of others, who choose to focus on the meaning and reasons behind HJs words.

This is not how reasonable adult people conduct conversations, hence I shall disregard your doom-laden predictions about how this clip will be perceived by reasonable peopl.

‘people feel the video posted on twitter was unfairly misrepresenting Joyce's views through editing or showing it out of context, or do they agree with the segment and think it's represented fairly?’

I think she said what she thinks.

I'm a bit confused, do people feel the video posted on twitter was unfairly misrepresenting Joyce's views through editing or showing it out of context, or do they agree with the segment and think it's represented fairly?

Lol Shiny, isn't age just a stereotype?

@Nellle "Maud, no I haven't read HJ's work and that's exactly the point I made earlier - The vast majority of people who hear the clip OJ's sharing also haven't read her work and won't care to now. She's doing you no favours."

Perhaps those people who take that clip at face value are those to whom we should express utter disinterest, since it says far too much about their lack of intellectual capacity?

Mutilating children and lying to them is about as disgusting as it gets.

‘So, we're saying that she doesn't want to eliminate trans people, she just doesn't want them to transition?’

Cycle back a bit. What is a ‘trans person’ before they transition? What does it mean? I am genuinely not being antagonistic. I want to know what you believe distinguishes these people from people who would be better served by mental health support.

(Again, I am not expressing a firm opinion. Just asking you what you think.)

She wants to reduce the number of children and young children dissociating from their sex, necessitating a transition. Are you against this?

Joyce didn't say anything about "until 18", she spoke of actively reducing the number of trans people as much as possible period.

It's only a matter of time before it turns into "until 25", and then not at all.

LK1972 I'm afraid you're trying to engage me in an argument I'm not willing to have about the reasoning behind the comments (I've tried before).

I popped on (or perhaps you'll say plopped on) to express frustration that the GC argument has been represented at its worst here. Doesn't matter how clever you tell me HJ is, that's how she'll be perceived by a large audience today.

Sorry, *consider focusing. Wouldn't want to be prescriptive her on what you focus.

So, we're saying that she doesn't want to eliminate trans people, she just doesn't want them to transition?

'Her reasoning about transitioning not being healthy or good is not what I'm focusing on'-yes, that's clear from your posts. Would you possibly focusing on her reasoning about transitioning, it may give you an insight in what other people on this board are saying and why? Or will that exposure to someone else's opinion taint you with 'bigotry'?

‘I think her saying that she wants to keep the number down of the people transitioning (including "happily transitioned") makes it sound like she wants there to be fewer trans people. Her reasoning about transitioning not being healthy or good is not what I'm focusing on - she wants less of it.’

But the reasoning is integral to her point. If transitioning is harmful (and it might be overall even if some or many people are happy as individuals), of course she wants less of it.

(I’m not relying on her being correct to make that argument. It’s enough that she thinks it’s correct.)

@idlemuse "I have posted the full quote above btw."

Yes, I saw that. It clearly demonstrates there is no bigotry and nothing but concern and compassion for anyone who is dissociated from their natural sex, which clearly does present a serious social problem if the numbers of such people, especially children, continues to increase.

This is a new phenomenon. There has never been such a volume of people claiming to be dissociated from their natural sex before. Society needs to make arrangements to accommodate this in a way that avoids any possible adverse impacts on the majority who are not dissociated from their natural sex.

Heathers - yes, exactly.

"What do you mean by ‘eliminate’? She doesn’t think transition is healthy or good. That isn’t eliminating people, is it?"

I think her saying that she wants to keep the number down of the people transitioning (including "happily transitioned") makes it sound like she wants there to be fewer trans people. Her reasoning about transitioning not being healthy or good is not what I'm focusing on - she wants less of it.

Maud, no I haven't read HJ's work and that's exactly the point I made earlier - The vast majority of people who hear the clip OJ's sharing also haven't read her work and won't care to now. She's doing you no favours.

You clearly haven't read Helen's book or heard a word Helen has said elswhere.

Most people haven't, but over a million people have watched the video clip and that is a big problem.

I have posted the full quote above btw.

@Nellle "But I think Helen Joyce sounds like a bigot here who wants to eliminate trans people."

1. The definition of bigot is below:

2. You clearly haven't read Helen's book or heard a word Helen has said elswhere. [All you have heard is a maliciously created clip taken out of its context from a one hour chat.]

LOJ-little Owen Jones, a populist and demagogue, spreading intolerance and encouraging divisions in our society as per usual. Left's Piers Morgan, that LOJ

‘But I think Helen Joyce sounds like a bigot here who wants to eliminate trans people.’

What do you mean by ‘eliminate’? She doesn’t think transition is healthy or good. That isn’t eliminating people, is it?