So disgusted tonight

Thanks Maude.

'... linguistic trickery is essential to the absurd and dangerous misrepresentations I’m currently experiencing.'

www.thehelenjoyce.com/joyce-activated...

"I’m sometimes asked why I don’t talk about people for whom transition was the best option. I give part of the answer in my book—that what I’m interested in isn’t trans people per se, it’s the ideology that underpins the notion that some men can “really be women” and vice versa, and the impact of that ideology on society at large, which I think is wholly negative."

"I’ll explain why I think a common framing is mistaken—that for some people, at least, transition is the best option and all that is needed is to identify them accurately; and why anyone who cares about sex-based rights should want fewer people to believe in gender-identity ideology, and fewer people to transition."

This cracked me up! 😂

Got it!

and to be honest, I'm really enjoying Owen's change of direction. I think he's finally showing signs of growing up.

nitter.net/artist_jones

Comprehensive account here, Datun: www.instagram.com/dylanmulvaney/

The terven have been having fun with hashtags today.

I'd love to see a list of attributes, characteristics, psychology, occupations, or social roles of women, that men who transition covet because they are denied to them as men. Or indeed inhabit - as trans.

fascinating, AlisonDonut!

Sounds cool

Guess soil type can vary considerably over even a small route , never gave it thought before

Thank you

Roads aren't just put onto the ground, they have to be designed and in order to be designed including drainage, subbase etc, we take samples of soil to test for all sorts of things, from how much water is in the soil, how plastic [ie how much clay] is in there, how long it will take to consolidate over time, the chemical levels in the soil, the pH, and how much weight it will bear, the shear strength, the compressive strength, the depth of ground water over a 2-3 year period [dipped weekly], etc etc etc. One key test is, how much water the soil can take, before the strength and density starts to weaken the soil, so when the water fills up all the air pockets there will be less soil if more water is added and thus, it weakens the soil. And we test during the road building, to make sure the road is built to spec [and to the density it needs to be], and we test after the road is built to ensure that it is stable and strong enough to take the traffic. And we sample years later if it starts corroding, especially bridges which are prone to it due to the steel in the concrete].

Sexy, it is not. Hard work - yes. Heavy work - yes.

What are the soil sample tests ?

( sorry diversion but I didn't know that soil was taken away for testing before roads were built , exciting new info )

@Fieldofgreycorn

Pleas can you come back and let me know if you genuinely think that women like me get turned on when we dig holes to take soil samples to test for road building, or when we are stood next to hot tarmac bagging it up to take back to the lab. Thanks.

Dr Money? The one who invented the term 'gender identity'?

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Money

The processes that affect sex differentiation during foetal development affect both the phenotype of the body and neurological development in the brain and there are crucial periods that are more sensitive to one or the other. I don’t just think that, it’s basic human embryology. I think within that there’s a plausible explanation for contributory biological factors to the development of transsexuality or cross sex identity.

So why did none of this ever happen before Dr Money experimented on kids?

Do you genuinely believe this? Are you saying basically that people like me, who spent their whole working life in traditionally male dominated construction jobs, are somehow 'trans'?

Or is it just about SEX. So is it only if I got turned on working in a 'man's job' [as specifically parroted to me over years] that would make me 'trans'?

People who feel they have the wrong sexed body parts to the extent that the intense dysphoria means they can’t experience any intimacy.

So all the late transitioning males who have fathered children don't have a cross sex identity, so aren't really trans according to you? Same for all the TRAs who threaten rape using their 'girl dicks'. And the 90% + of 'transwomen' who have no intention of having genital surgery.

>transsexuality or cross sex identity. (And yes sexual orientation. But let’s not pretend the two are not in some ways connected).

your post is alluding wordily to the evidence that homosexuality and hormone levels in the womb seem to be linked. Refreshingly, you’ve acknowledged for these purposes that there’s a link between homosexuality and “cross-sex identity”, because your evidence for “cross-sex identity” is in fact evidence for biological correlates of homosexuality.

So… you can acknowledge that lot of “trans kids” are actually “gay kids” then? Or at least, that based on the current state of knowledge, the two can’t be readily distinguished.

Bonus! Sterilising gay kids… good idea or bad idea?

Maybe the Helens have a point that we should be doing less of it?

maybe you could even say that sterilising “gay kids” is a bit more genocide-adjacent than not sterilising “trans kids”.

In what ways exactly do sone men have brains like women’s brains ?

Having spent my life challenging society to accept that despite being a women I have a good technically capable scientific brain I do find the lady brain concept extremely insulting hurtful regressive and unproven

It's taken me 50+ years

I am considered a world expert in my field - something very few women before me had managed to achieve because of the idea that lady's brains are just different

If some men have brains which in some way are more like a typical woman's brain, it just means that those attributes are also found in men's brains, not that he has a woman's brain in a man's body.

Indeed. We've managed to figure that out for the one thing that really fits that description - homosexuality. We don't say a gay man has a woman's brain in a man's body. And that's a clearly materially real phenomenon.

You don't get to play the ladybrain game for something unobservable in terms of behaviour while not using it for that.

The processes that affect sex differentiation during foetal development affect both the phenotype of the body and neurological development in the brain and there are crucial periods that are more sensitive to one or the other.

Sex differentiation in the brain which develops to be the opposite sex from the body? This sounds suspiciously like a belief in ladybrains. If some men have brains which in some way are more like a typical woman's brain, it just means that those attributes are also found in men's brains, not that he has a woman's brain in a man's body.

This is really, really good.

No I meant transsexuals who feel they have the body of the wrong sex and are therefore not functioning well in those areas of life because of the distress. In the same way that someone with depression or anxiety (or uncontrolled schizophrenia) might not function well in those domains of life until they are treated.

I think we all understand that this is a psychological condition

People who feel they have the wrong sexed body parts to the extent that the intense dysphoria means they can’t experience any intimacy. Medical/ surgical transition in those cases can lead to them feeling more whole, with the right body that feels more ‘like them’ enabling them to be more comfortable with themselves and other people. Therefore improved psychosocial functioning, relationships etc. Male to female or female to male.

We don't offer surgical procedures for people with psychological conditions. Mainly because, as with transpeople, those surgeries don't, in the medium and ling term, offer any cessation of mental distress, including suicide ideation.

The processes that affect sex differentiation during foetal development affect both the phenotype of the body and neurological development in the brain and there are crucial periods that are more sensitive to one or the other. I don’t just think that, it’s basic human embryology. I think within that there’s a plausible explanation for contributory biological factors to the development of transsexuality or cross sex identity. (And yes sexual orientation. But let’s not pretend the two are not in some ways connected).

Basic human embriology? OK

There is some interesting nascent work on that, but it is so complicated, has so many confounding variables, that the very clever people who run the research programmes conclude that they can't even state any true correlations, let alone causality. A light touch conclusion is that, as with many other studies, there might be a predisposition. That it is not inevitable or global, needs to meet the correct societal/nurture factors, which are also not inevitable or global.

Put simply: there is a lot more work to be done, this could be something, it could be nothing. Work in progress.

So no description of how the sexes are psychologically, socially, and occupationally different? Just more of the born in the wrong body nonsense?

I never actually get to hear a list of attributes that are so very much wanted from the opposite sex.

I mean, I wouldn't mind so much, except thinking that women must be so very psychologically, socially and occupationally different to you (not you personally), that the only way for you to feel as though you can express yourself is to emulate one, is just rank sexism.

Not to mention that most of the transitioned males that I see I have no intention of inhabiting women's stereotypical roles.

Field, can you explain how, for instance, women are psychologically different to men? And socially? And occupationally and sexually? In the context of why a man would want to inhabit those roles? And how he could?

No I meant transsexuals who feel they have the body of the wrong sex and are therefore not functioning well in those areas of life because of the distress. In the same way that someone with depression or anxiety (or uncontrolled schizophrenia) might not function well in those domains of life until they are treated.

People who feel they have the wrong sexed body parts to the extent that the intense dysphoria means they can’t experience any intimacy. Medical/ surgical transition in those cases can lead to them feeling more whole, with the right body that feels more ‘like them’ enabling them to be more comfortable with themselves and other people. Therefore improved psychosocial functioning, relationships etc. Male to female or female to male.

Not a trick question. You obviously think that there are differences which are sufficiently unalike and unobtainable, that the only way to acquire them is to emulate the opposite sex.

The processes that affect sex differentiation during foetal development affect both the phenotype of the body and neurological development in the brain and there are crucial periods that are more sensitive to one or the other. I don’t just think that, it’s basic human embryology. I think within that there’s a plausible explanation for contributory biological factors to the development of transsexuality or cross sex identity. (And yes sexual orientation. But let’s not pretend the two are not in some ways connected).