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Original poster

If TWAW, why do we need separate spaces for women?

66 replies

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 02/06/2022 00:08

Just that really. I'd genuinely like to hear about this from people who believe that TWAW. If we go along with the idea that woman is a state of thinking and nothing to do with your biology, then I would be really interested to know why we want to keep any segregated spaces rather than just having everything open to all (toilets, sports, hospital wards, prisons etc.).

I'm genuinely baffled as to why it makes sense to group me with some male born and some female born people as I can't see what the commonality is.

I don't want this to descend into the normal chaos of non-answers and insults but can anyone just simply explain to me why they think we need separate spaces for people who identify as women?

OP posts:
GoodThinkingMax · 02/06/2022 02:26

I see what you mean but women's spaces were set up for female bodied people and if we say that female bodied either is a state you can achieve through surgery and/ or bears no relation to whether you are a woman or not then surely we don't need women's spaces? i.e. the argument we used to have for needing separate spaces evaporates.

Its about validation for transwomen. But mainly a particular type of transwoman, who suffer from a condition we're not allowed to mention here.

But f you think about Ray Blanchard's typology of the two types of male transsexualism - it's not usually the "feminine homosexual" transwoman who barges in to women's spaces with sword, gun, or aggressive cock.

JellySaurus · 02/06/2022 01:45

Segregating people by gender seems similar to segregating them by religion. It can make sense to have a separate support group for Muslims, because their faith influences their experiences and may mean they need different support to, say, atheists or members of a different religion. The group members have something in common that is of great relevance to the situation.

It does not make any sense to have a separate toilet for Muslims, because their faith does not influence the way their bodies function, nor does it have any relevance to the privacy and dignity of non-Muslims. What the toilet-users have in common is their physical need to use the toilet, rather than their religions, which are irrelevant to toilet use.

Similarly, when deciding whether to segregate groups by gender, you have to ask what they have in common that is relevant to the segregation. What do Tw and women have in common in their experiences of gender and in how gender has affected their lives? As Tw are male and women are female, and gender stereotypes are applied differently to females and males, nothing much. So there's no point in segregating anything by gender.

Thelnebriati · 02/06/2022 01:21

What do I mean?
TruthHertz · Today 00:20
As I see it, some people believe that TW are women, so should be treated as such. So gender segregation continues as normal

There is no such thing as gender segregation. For centuries society has been segregated by sex, and to the detriment of women. Women couldn't join men's societies or clubs or guilds.
I'm sure it's just an enormous coincidence that now that sex segregation is used by women to benefit us (single sex toilets, sports, prisons and other spaces), men want to move the goal posts...

ErrolTheDragon · 02/06/2022 00:55

So basically you're asking if there's any justification for separating spaces, services, sports etc by 'gender' (whatever that is in any particular culture) rather than by sex?

We can present many reasons for the latter, but I've never heard any rational arguments for the former.

Whatsnewpussyhat · 02/06/2022 00:55

Gender segregation came about in an era when people thought there was some commonality between all women

Sex segregation, not 'gender' segregation.

If we believe trans ideology then that was wrong

We don't believe in gender identity ideology so what's the point of your nonsense posts?

We all know the difference between women and men.

Original poster
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 02/06/2022 00:49

Well yes that's how I see it but I wanted to challenge my thinking and see if there is any substance to an alternate viewpoint.

OP posts:
JellySaurus · 02/06/2022 00:44

Because if there are no women's spaces for them to use, how will Tw get their validation?

Original poster
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 02/06/2022 00:30

Thelnebriati · 02/06/2022 00:29

There's nothing normal about gender segregation. Women have been excluded on the grounds of sex and for as long as it suited them.

what do you mean?

OP posts:
Original poster
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 02/06/2022 00:29

This is making me think that without some clear sense of what a transwoman and a woman have in common that the woman does not have in common with a man, this conversation can't go far. Does anyone have an answer to that?

OP posts:
Thelnebriati · 02/06/2022 00:29

There's nothing normal about gender segregation. Women have been excluded on the grounds of sex and for as long as it suited them.

Original poster
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 02/06/2022 00:27

TruthHertz · 02/06/2022 00:20

As I see it, some people believe that TW are women, so should be treated as such. So gender segregation continues as normal but with TW just being treated as women.

I'm not getting why we need to continue segregated spaces though - if TWAW then there is no commonality between women, literally nothing they have in common. So surely then we should open up all spaces to everyone? Gender segregation came about in an era when people thought there was some commonality between all women. If we believe trans ideology then that was wrong.

OP posts:
Notsandwiches · 02/06/2022 00:25

Research has shown trans people retain the criminal behaviour of their sex and not their adopted gender and as a consequence women are at the same risk from trans women as they are from men. Women need to retain exclusivity in relation to protected spaces. People with a penis do not belong in women's spaces.

Original poster
Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 02/06/2022 00:25

I see what you mean but women's spaces were set up for female bodied people and if we say that female bodied either is a state you can achieve through surgery and/ or bears no relation to whether you are a woman or not then surely we don't need women's spaces? i.e. the argument we used to have for needing separate spaces evaporates.

It can't just be men's spaces and space for anyone at risk from men surely? If so then effeminate men should also be in men's spaces given the amount of gay bashing which still happens?

Anyway, still not sure what the commonality is between people who identify as women and biological females (most of whom I think have no gender identity).

OP posts:
TruthHertz · 02/06/2022 00:20

As I see it, some people believe that TW are women, so should be treated as such. So gender segregation continues as normal but with TW just being treated as women.

TruthHertz · 02/06/2022 00:18

I thought most people who believe TWAW were generally of the opinion that trans people should share women's spaces.

WeAreBob · 02/06/2022 00:14

Trans women are at risk of violence from other men. It's stupid to pretend otherwise.

Women are at risk. But so are trans women.
But then women are at risk when female only spaces are opened up to any man who identifies their way in.

So we really need men, transwomen and women spaces. But that wont happen because it actually isnt about safety. It's about validation. If it was about safety then third spaces would have been accepted but they dont want a third space, they want validation.

The party line is that they are women because they identify as women. The real men in the men's spaces arent the same because TWAW and women need their own space ergo, they do too. With women. So really, it's for validation.