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Original poster

Please help me write to my school about toilet policy

37 replies

M08my · 29/05/2022 16:20

Dear wise mumsnetters

I've name changed for this because I'm paranoid this post could be found by my employer. I'm an avid mumsnetter who posts a lot under my other name.

I'm a teacher in a secondary school in England. Several members of senior leadership are very loudly pro "LGBTQIAplus" rights.

A new, long, email has been sent by the assistant head about trans vocabulary we must use and two thirds down the document it matter of factly explains that we can reassure any pupil that they can use the toilets of whichever gender they identify with. It says that this is required under the Equality Act.

We already have at least two boys who identify as girls, and the official line is we address them by their new girls' names and use she/her. I only mention this because the toilets/changing rooms policy isnt purely hypothetical. I don't know those students personally.

For extra context, my school was soecifically mentioned as part of the Everyone's Invited allegations of peer-on-peer sexual assault (assault perpetrated by boys onto girls). To be fair, very many schools were.

I'm concerned that this new policy will put girls at risk, not from those specific trans students necessarily of course, but because it invites any boy to enter girls' toilets and changing rooms maliciously with impunity under the excuse of questioning their gender. Girls experience period stigma and might avoid their loos or even stay home during their period. Even worse, they may be scared to report any abuse for fear of being labelled transphobic. Teachers can't go into the toilets and changing rooms (of course, rightfully!) so any assault happening there wouldn't necessarily be witnessed.

I'm frightened to reply directly to this assistant head with my concerns about this new policy. I'm planning to write instead to the head of safeguarding. I'm so worried about it that I couldn't sleep last night. I drafted a long email in Word listing all the risks and quoting statistics and quoting official guidance that school loos should be single sex above age 8 and using facts from the Safe Schools Alliance resources. It runs to a page and a half, typed. I haven't sent it yet.

Please reassure me, mumsnet. Should I send it? I'm so scared of being considered politically hostile at my very left wing school. Teaching is very reputation based and I'm not even halfway through my career.

If I send it, how can I be most convincing? Short and snappy, or long and data/law-driven? As you can see from this post (lol) I'm bad at being concise.

Thank you so much for reading this far. I'm so grateful to this forum.

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Caaarrrl · 02/06/2022 15:06

You most definitely are brave. You were afraid, but you did what your beliefs and conscience told you was for the best. I am a primary teacher and I know that there is a boy who has been raised as a girl in the year group below mine. I teach upper key stage 2, so I am really concerned about this child sharing the toilets with girls who will be starting to menstruate. I have made no secret of my GC views at school, but it will be entirely different when this is a real life situation for me. I only hope that I can be as brave as you are being.

toastfairy · 02/06/2022 13:27

M08my
Ps thank you so much Carrrll for saying I'm brave because I'm really not, I've been totally anxious about the whole thing.

Being fearless isn't the same thing as being brave. Being brave is feeling thefear but doing the right thing anyway. I'm with Carrrll (and others) this was a brave thing to do. Well done you.

Original poster
M08my · 01/06/2022 09:38

Loads of typos! That should say one of the couples started talking about JKR. A man and his much younger gf who I think just follows whatever he says. The gf who quietly nodded about SA was the oldest at the table.

This sounds defeatist but I honestly think some understanding of these issues only comes with age. I don't know how to get through to younger people who have less life experiences of awful stuff

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Original poster
M08my · 01/06/2022 09:36

TheBiologyStupid · 31/05/2022 20:04

You ARE brave, @M08my and sadly, your DH just doesn't get it. He should do, as I expect that he has much more experience of exactly how obnoxious teenage boys can be. That said, I believe that he did "get it" when examples were given?

Thank you all very much, it's really kind of you 💚🤍💜 I want to be braver and try to do the right thing more.

Yeah my DH really doesn't get it. It's a combination of a) he's not a teacher and works with computers (deliberately vague lol) and b) he really, really doesn't understand how common sexual assault is.

Recently I was having drinks with dh some of our closest friends, three men and two women. To my astonishment some of the couples started talking about Jk Rowling and how she is "the biggest transphobe" and how awful radical feminists are. I quietly mumbled, "well, I'm a radical feminist. I don't think JKR is a transphobe." This triggered a huge debate and I was really sad about it afterwards. You'll never guess what was the most convincing thing I said, though. I was saying men could go into our loos under false pretences and man 1 almost shouted, "that would never happen! That's like when people said criminals would wear burkhas! Youre acting like there's sex offenders everywhere" The two most vehement were two of the men. I just said "but sexual assault IS really common. Literally every woman I know has been sexually assaulted at some point, or even raped." Man 2 was about to rubbish this but glanced at his girlfriend first who just nodded at him. Both men were suddenly speechless.

Most men have no idea!!

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TheBiologyStupid · 31/05/2022 20:46

TribunalBingo · 31/05/2022 20:44

Well done op, you ARE brave. The kids in your school are a little bit safer today than they were yesterday, and that's because you found your courage, and did the right thing 💐

Yes to this!

TribunalBingo · 31/05/2022 20:44

Well done op, you ARE brave. The kids in your school are a little bit safer today than they were yesterday, and that's because you found your courage, and did the right thing 💐

TheBiologyStupid · 31/05/2022 20:04

You ARE brave, @M08my and sadly, your DH just doesn't get it. He should do, as I expect that he has much more experience of exactly how obnoxious teenage boys can be. That said, I believe that he did "get it" when examples were given?

GoodThinkingMax · 31/05/2022 18:24

You ARE brave, @M08my and sadly, your DH just doesn't get it. But then he hasn't been a teenage girl, so I suppose he doesn't realise. And neither have transwomen been teenage girls, so they don't get it either.

And we know that no-one listens to girls & women when they speak of their experience in these kinds of things.

The response of your DSL suggests to me that either you're not the only one who has contacted him with concerns, or, he has concerns himself, or there's been a bit of a debate in the SMT about this. Or bits of all those possibilities.

Original poster
M08my · 31/05/2022 14:16

Ps thank you so much Carrrll for saying I'm brave because I'm really not, I've been totally anxious about the whole thing. Tried to talk this through with my husband who is usually my rock and he was a bit like - he couldn't get worked up about this. His exact words were "it's not going to be a free for all, is it?" I said well you don't know teenage boys like I do. They can be awful oafs. It would be so easy for one to say "hey you let John go in the girls loos, why not me? I feel a woman today" just so he can go and torment a girl in there, not because he was actually feeling transgender. That did get through to DH.

Anyway I'm so relieved I haven't been completely told off by DSL, I just hope I've got through. There was an element of "this is all still under review" in his response.

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Original poster
M08my · 31/05/2022 14:09

Thank you all so much for your support. DSL actually replied within half an hour (gosh - but actually I suppose as DSL he has to respond urgently to urgent safeguarding concerns so hes always on email).

He thanked me for my comments and said that in the past they have suggested to transgender pupils to use single occupancy facilities (it's what I suggested in my last para as complying with guidance) and that if they had to make any future decisions they would always prioritise safeguarding. That seems good, I'm glad...but it does seem to contradict AH's guidance to all staff I think? He also said he was "aware" of the attorney general's recent comments so that's good.

Finally he said he would be willing to talk further about this confidentially.

I think this is all good news although I'm still digesting it (and I haven't replied yet). I think it's good because:

-he didn't seem shocked or disapproving
-he didn't imply that I was being discriminatory or "transphobic" or anything like that
-he seemed to be aware of my arguments already (maybe someone has flagged this before, or something)
-he was OK with me wanting to keep my concerns confidential (I was a bit worried he'd ask "why didn't you just reply to AH directly")

I haven't worked out how I'm going to reply but I think I'll just keep it short saying "thank you very much for considering my concerns and I'm reassured that the safeguarding aspect is being considered in this matter" or something like that, probably phrase it better obviously.

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Caaarrrl · 31/05/2022 12:01

Great work, OP! You have been really brave, but it shouldn't be necessary to be brave to raise safe guarding concerns, should it?

ZandathePanda · 31/05/2022 11:46

Epilepsy affects lots of children and it’s much safer for them to go to a toilet with a gap at the bottom of the door for obvious reasons. it sounds like the toilet doors still have gaps at the bottom in this case. But it does mean the likelihood of phones being used is greater.

MatureMam · 31/05/2022 11:40

That's great and best of luck. Your female students have a real ally in you (even if they don't realise it or are too worried to admit any concerns). I know what you mean about being considered a trouble maker. That's happened to me too when I've stood up and expressed doubts or concern in my teaching and social care roles. But it means you're a better teacher than those who stay silent. They know and are the real cowards.

TheBiologyStupid · 31/05/2022 11:30

Thanks for the update OP - I hope that your email is taken seriously and gets a positive outcome.

Artichokeleaves · 31/05/2022 10:00

Well done OP.

Just to add: disability gets forgotten as one of the protected characteristics this clashes with.

Many MNetters with Autism have shared the significant difficulties this causes them and that mixed sex spaces are inaccessible. Girls with bladder and bowel issues may find using public toilets difficult enough without boys listening and commenting and laughing and being right outside. Girls with PTSD and trauma from CSA or being involved in DV/DA at home may also have very significant challenges in accessing mixed sex spaces.

The Equality Act requires the fostering of good relationships - not creating a stand off of two sides: male children with gender identity based needs who wish to use female spaces, and female children with culture/faith/disabilities who cannot used mixed sex spaces and without female only access just plain can't use a toilet at school. Eric, the charity for toileting, have shared concerns regarding teenaged girls not drinking all day to avoid having to use the toilet because they won't enter the space. To set up winners and losers, and make sure the female children know they are the losers is sadly an intrinsic part of TQ+ policy.

However actual inclusion means a range of diverse and accessible facilities that meet all needs equally. Which would involve some mixed sex facilities and some female only and boundaries that male students are going to have to respect that female students are not a lesser species and have legal entitlement to inclusion too.

The politics has no place in school. The law and equality does. Unless the school is embracing male supremacism, which sadly the TQ+ politics, however unconsciously and unintentionally does in fact create.

Original poster
M08my · 31/05/2022 09:46

Thank you all so much for your support. I've written the email and sent it to DSL. (Well, I've scheduled-send for 1pm in case I suddenly think of anything else to add). I'm really scared that this will come back to bite me in the bum and all my colleagues will see me as a dreadful troublemaker (I was seen as one at my last school, for different reasons, and I was trying to reinvent myself here!)

I covered:

  • boys could enter girls' facilities under false pretences
-risk of sexual abuse -Everyone's Invited allegations showing that peer on peer abuse does happen, is under reported, and has happened at my school -girls suffer from period stigma and that can lead to taking time off school when on period -students from some religious backgrounds need SSS (and we do have some representation of those religions at my school). -I copied and pasted some legal guidance -mentioned attorney general's recently reported comments (thanks for pointing me to that, hadn't read that!) -said I had sources for data/quotes if requested but email already too long. (900 words lol)

I also (coward klaxon) asked for my email to be confidential. I also said I wasn't looking for a debate, just wanted to refer my concerns to DSL and leave it with him. Same as any other safeguarding concern- eg if I thought a child was at risk of harm, I'd tell him, but if he didn't agree he wouldn't come back to me to argue about it, right? So hopefully that won't happen here because I'd just feel attacked if he starts a back and forth (although I wouldn't back down, I'd just be unhappy about having to argue).

Thank you all again so much for supporting me on this. I guess DSL might think this is a petty hill to die on but it's wakened all my mummy bear instincts. I've lost so much sleep and even shed tears reading all that Everyone's Invited stuff and then thinking about my female students and how vulnerable they are. They're all so nice and self-effacing and accommodating (I mean my own female students personally).

I'll let you all know how DSL responds - this thread has probably got lost amongst the more important ones but I know it's still good to get updates. It's half term atm so he might not reply till next week.

Many thanks all 💚🤍💜

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MatureMam · 29/05/2022 23:30

@M08my I'm sorry that you have no work colleagues you can trust to discuss this issue with. It must be difficult working somewhere like that. Perhaps you're right to think about looking for work elsewhere! Although a girl's school may not be any better as this ideology is taught everywhere. I wouldn't assume that all the pupils accept or agree with this ideology though. I work with young people, and am also back at university at the moment as a mature student, and I have found that many young people are uncomfortable but are too scared to say anything in case they are accused of unkindness and bigotry. If we as adults are scared, then it must seem impossible as a teenager. Even more reason to speak up, I guess.

TheBiologyStupid · 29/05/2022 23:05

I meant to add that since the government is currently working on formal guidance for schools on the issue of children who identify as transgender, it shouldn't be too difficult to persuade the school to wait? Changing its policy before the official guidance comes out will only cause confusion and create extra work.

TheBiologyStupid · 29/05/2022 22:53

Of course, the Attorney General Suella Braverman has just told The Times in the past couple of days that schools do NOT have to make accommodations for school children who identity as trans. The original Times interview is behind a paywall, but The Guardian also reported on it: The attorney general also discussed girls’ toilets and changing rooms having special protections as safe spaces if a scenario arises of a child born male wanting to use them.

She said: “I would say to the school that they don’t have to and that they shouldn’t allow that child to go into girls’ toilets.”

Braverman added the Equality Act contained “very important single-sex exemptions” that protected spaces such as girls’ toilets and changing rooms.
www.theguardian.com/society/2022/may/27/attorney-general-says-schools-do-not-have-to-accommodate-childrens-gender-wishes

FOJN · 29/05/2022 21:50

Good luck BTW. Let us know how you get on and thank you for standing up for women, girls and safeguarding.

FOJN · 29/05/2022 21:47

I don't think you need to link to "biased" resources but you can use those sites to locate the relevant legislation. I'd buff up on public sector equality duty and then casually ask if an equality impact assessment has been done.

I wonder if you email the SSA directly they may be able to help you more than perhaps we can as they will almost certainly have scrutinised many such policies to determine if they are compliant with the law.

ZandathePanda · 29/05/2022 20:21

Nothing to add as you seem to have covered it all but well done on doing this.

Original poster
M08my · 29/05/2022 20:20

I think if the students were aware of the policy they'd applaud it as they are all very invested in this latest ideology as teenagers mostly are these days (there's LGBTQIA+ mentioned on all society posters etc, we had a trans charity non-uniform day etc).

But like a pp said, if parents were aware I think many would be concerned. But also many wouldn't be, we are in quite a lefty part of England.

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Original poster
M08my · 29/05/2022 20:14

I forgot to say, AH's document lists further reading and resources at the bottom and they are all the likes of Mermaids and similar charities/websites. That's where she is getting her info from which is why I'm afraid she'd see eg Transgender Trend as "biased".

@respectmysex and @Watermonster it's so good to hear those good outcomes. It's making me feel more hopeful than I've been.

If it all goes wrong then maybe I'll just quit and go work in a girls' school. Then I wouldn't have to worry so much about keeping the girls safe from the boys. I'm genuinely considering it at this point!

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Original poster
M08my · 29/05/2022 20:09

Thank you so much all for your wise advice and ideas.

So first of all, this new policy hasn't been announced to students or parents or even presented as a new policy. It's just a few lines deeply embedded in advice sent to us teachers by the assistant head (call her AH), and (I think) written by her perhaps jointly with head of sixth form (they are very much allies, I mean in the old fashioned way but also the "woke" way). I'm not totally sure that the safeguarding lead/Deputy head (call him DSL) who I'm thinking of emailing is even necessarily aware, although he is named in the document. I think AH thinks this is just what all schools are doing and is normal. This document has been delegated to her to write.

The reason why I'm hesitant to copy links or resources from Sex Matters or Safe Schools Alliance or Transgender Trend, when writing to DSL, even though I read these myself and really value them, is that these organisations have been branded as "transphobic". If DSL simply forwards these on to AH she'll simply reply that they are biased sources maybe without either person even reading them. But if I paraphrase the information from them in my own words, I think/hope that'll be harder to refute.

One pp suggested I canvass opinions around my colleagues but this is the last thing I want to do as I'm a coward... I've already tried to talk about gender matters in the past to one woman who spouted a whole load of Judith Butler at me and then continually criticised my "tone". (I think my tone was fine but hey ho. I secretly look down on anyone who swallows judith butler's pseudo-intellectual obfuscatory claptrap and maybe that showed in spite of my efforts, oops. Sorry to get angry for a minute there lol.) It was exhausting and I'm scared of my reputation spreading further around the school. I do have one colleague who I know agrees with me but he doesn't feel strongly enough about it to want to stick his neck out, plus he's going for a big promotion so doesn't want to rock the boat.

Thank you all for mentioning Sex Matters and Transgender Trend because I'd forgotten about those so I had another look and found stuff I could copy and paste.

I keep thinking I maybe shouldn't bother because most probably nothing bad will happen. But, maybe it might? Isn't that the whole point of safeguarding right.

Thank you all for your support. I've lost so much sleep over this. What's made this all so much worse is I went back to Everyone's Invited and read again some of those stories about sexual abuse in schools, and found the ones where my school was mentioned. It's just harrowing. I can't stand by while we potentially increase the risk to our girls.

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