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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Billy Bragg. Again

89 replies

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 28/05/2022 22:27

Billy Bragg saw some Holocaust memorials today; the type known as a Stolperstein, which literally translates as stumbling block. They are made by hand, and each one is to a specific person or household; it bears their name and is placed to mark the last place they were known to been voluntarily, before they were taken.

They are heartbreaking things, but some feel their placement in pavements is disrespectful to the people whose lives they seek to memorialise. So they are banned in some German towns and cities. That's not an argument I've ever had an opinion on, because it's not my place.

However, I never saw this coming. This is how Billy Bragg has reacted to seeing them today. He's used them in an argument about flipping trans activism. How low can you go?

Billy Bragg, tweet 1: Yeah, like white supremacists can argue that they’re not anti-Black, they’re just pro-white. And guess what? They also complain that, for taking that view, they’ve been subject to a smear campaign for years.

Other Person: Desperate argument but oh kaaaay.

Billy Bragg, tweet 2: I’m in Hamburg atm In the pavements are small brass plaques bearing the names of Jews who lived in the building opposite the plaque who were murdered by the Nazis. That began with people deciding they could define someone by their biology alone.

Followed to a wikipedia link about the purpose of a Stolperstein

Billy Bragg being repugnant

Billy Bragg. Again
OP posts:
TheBiologyStupid · 28/05/2022 23:32

Another example of Mr Bragg getting it wrong. Interestingly, The Guardian chose some of the (very many) comments critical of his piece for their "Guardian picks":
www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2020/jul/10/free-speech-young-people

TheBiologyStupid · 28/05/2022 23:24

The sound of ideologies clashing, alright. Very disappointed with Billy (sadly, not for the first time).

TheMarzipanDildo · 28/05/2022 23:24

“Billy Bragg has said that British Jews have “work to do” to rebuild trust with the Labour party.“

ShockShock What a line!

JellySaurus · 28/05/2022 23:17

The Nazis, with all their phrenological head-measuring, turned biology into mumbo-jumbo pseudoscience to justify defining Jews as untermensch (sub-human) and 'Aryan' Germans as ubermensch (super-human).

Bragg, by claiming that the Nazis defined Jews by their 'biology' is supporting a totalitarian ideology.

Not surprising, really, when you consider how he suspends any capacity for rational thought by supporting another totalitarian ideology.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 28/05/2022 23:02

NecessaryScene · 28/05/2022 22:35

This sort of thing makes me scratch my head a little bit - do his type think that the lessons of history are that we had to get everyone to pretend that Jews and blacks are not different types of human from the normal type?

And that therefore we should also pretend that women aren't a different type of human from the normal type?

He might possibly have grasped the wrong end of the stick about racism and anti-semitism there.

Fairly certain that's it. I mean he said, "That began with people deciding they could define someone by their biology alone."

I can't see any way to interpret that other than an assumption on his part that to be Jewish is to have a different "biology" from other people. A difference in biology so significant as to be akin to the difference between males and females of our species? That's pretty damn different.

OP posts:
Johnnysgirl · 28/05/2022 23:02

PronounssheRa · 28/05/2022 22:57

Bragg has form.

Billy Bragg has said that British Jews have “work to do” to rebuild trust with the Labour party.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/billy-bragg-jews-need-to-rebuild-trust-with-labour-9n9gmgdrm

He has also likened LGB alliance to white supremacists because of the absence of T. Yep, a straight man lecturing same sex attracted people on who they should include in their groups.

Is he desperate for attention or what? Confused
Clearly negative attention is better than none...

MrsTerryPratchett · 28/05/2022 23:01

I was under the impression that claiming not to 'see' race is in face racist. And just a handy way to ignore race and racism.

And the Nazis didn't reduce people to biology. They ascribed a whole set of negative stereotypes to race and religion.

PronounssheRa · 28/05/2022 22:57

Bragg has form.

Billy Bragg has said that British Jews have “work to do” to rebuild trust with the Labour party.

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/billy-bragg-jews-need-to-rebuild-trust-with-labour-9n9gmgdrm

He has also likened LGB alliance to white supremacists because of the absence of T. Yep, a straight man lecturing same sex attracted people on who they should include in their groups.

GrinAndVomit · 28/05/2022 22:53

At first I thought he was just misguided and trying to be kind. Now I’ve come to the realisation that he just hates women and this is a great way to channel that hatred while still remaining “liberal”.

donquixotedelamancha · 28/05/2022 22:47

Being Jewish is not biology, it's culture and religion.

At this stage I think expecting any level of sense from Billy Bragg is a waste of time.

Abhannmor · 28/05/2022 22:40

The Bard of Barking Mad.

NecessaryScene · 28/05/2022 22:35

This sort of thing makes me scratch my head a little bit - do his type think that the lessons of history are that we had to get everyone to pretend that Jews and blacks are not different types of human from the normal type?

And that therefore we should also pretend that women aren't a different type of human from the normal type?

He might possibly have grasped the wrong end of the stick about racism and anti-semitism there.

Johnnysgirl · 28/05/2022 22:31

God, he's a moronic arsehole.

TheMarzipanDildo · 28/05/2022 22:29

Wtf is he on. Utterly infuriating argument.