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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Billy Bragg. Again

89 replies

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 28/05/2022 22:27

Billy Bragg saw some Holocaust memorials today; the type known as a Stolperstein, which literally translates as stumbling block. They are made by hand, and each one is to a specific person or household; it bears their name and is placed to mark the last place they were known to been voluntarily, before they were taken.

They are heartbreaking things, but some feel their placement in pavements is disrespectful to the people whose lives they seek to memorialise. So they are banned in some German towns and cities. That's not an argument I've ever had an opinion on, because it's not my place.

However, I never saw this coming. This is how Billy Bragg has reacted to seeing them today. He's used them in an argument about flipping trans activism. How low can you go?

Billy Bragg, tweet 1: Yeah, like white supremacists can argue that they’re not anti-Black, they’re just pro-white. And guess what? They also complain that, for taking that view, they’ve been subject to a smear campaign for years.

Other Person: Desperate argument but oh kaaaay.

Billy Bragg, tweet 2: I’m in Hamburg atm In the pavements are small brass plaques bearing the names of Jews who lived in the building opposite the plaque who were murdered by the Nazis. That began with people deciding they could define someone by their biology alone.

Followed to a wikipedia link about the purpose of a Stolperstein

Billy Bragg being repugnant

Billy Bragg. Again
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PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 01:23

Well, Billy saw his first Stolperstein today and he's the great Billy Bragg! If he didn't know about them before, how could any of us proles know about them without being told?

Fucker.

But it certainly does lend an extra dimension to the ongoing debate over whether they are a counter-productive form of memorial, because they are set into the ground and you literally can step on them; I mean, Bragg has been trying to walk all over Jewish people on Twitter all evening.

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Flaxmeadow · 29/05/2022 01:15

wellhelloitsme · 29/05/2022 00:45

Fuck me, he's just said that those 'those angry with' him should click on his handy link which has more information about the holocaust.

He's said that. He's actually typed that out. And addressed it to all the Jewish people who commented explaining why his comment was so offensive.

Fucking hell. The narcissism of this man to tell Jewish people to read up on the holocaust.

Yes narcissist.
The other tweet started with something like "I'm in Hamburg right now, stood on a street where..."
As if...hey everyone it's Billy here to school you all again in the ways of the world, listen up guys, you won't know this but...

I remember when he used to come up north, he'd head straight for the 'cultural community centres' and then march with a big gang of men into town. Stand on the town hall steps preaching to even more men, never a woman in sight

SpindleSheWrote · 29/05/2022 01:14

I think that a lot of the left also forget about the existence of the minority who are Palestinian Christians.

I think it fucks with their brains or something, like the scribbly crayon cartoon.

yesterdaytheycame · 29/05/2022 01:13

He's clearly senile.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 01:12

TheBiologyStupid · 29/05/2022 01:08

Of course, despite the "progressive left" loving Palestine they wouldn't actually want to live there: i.redd.it/zho65kcmrs071.jpg

I doubt Palestine is very trans-inclusive. Israel, on the other hand, entered (and won) Eurovision with transwoman Dana International over two decades ago.

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TheBiologyStupid · 29/05/2022 01:08

Of course, despite the "progressive left" loving Palestine they wouldn't actually want to live there: i.redd.it/zho65kcmrs071.jpg

wellhelloitsme · 29/05/2022 01:01

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 00:56

Has the left always been this anti-semitic?

BB certainly has. What a nasty little man he is. This is from 2018:

SINGER Billy Bragg has accused Jews of “pouring petrol on the fire” by attacking Jeremy Corbyn in the anti-Semitism row.
Bragg, 60, an ally of the labour leader said the Jewish community had “work to do” and must shoulder some blame for the fallout.

TheBiologyStupid · 29/05/2022 01:00

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 00:56

Has the left always been this anti-semitic?

Palestinians are "people of colour" and Jews are "white oppressors". Yeah, beats me, too.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 00:56

Has the left always been this anti-semitic?

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SpindleSheWrote · 29/05/2022 00:56

@Thelandedgentry You are confusing legal, tenurial and social heritability with biology; and I think it's best left there tbh.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 00:54

wellhelloitsme · 29/05/2022 00:45

Fuck me, he's just said that those 'those angry with' him should click on his handy link which has more information about the holocaust.

He's said that. He's actually typed that out. And addressed it to all the Jewish people who commented explaining why his comment was so offensive.

Fucking hell. The narcissism of this man to tell Jewish people to read up on the holocaust.

Shit, he actually has.

And he's becoming ever more explicit with the implication that the Nazis were correct to think that Jews were biologically different...

Billy Bragg's tweet: Those angry with me for pointing out the potential dangers in seeking to define what rights a person has by their biology alone, rather than by universal principles, should read this article from the US Holocaust Memorial Museum
article from the US Holocaust Museum

Bragg, STFU. Just shut up.

Billy Bragg. Again
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TheBiologyStupid · 29/05/2022 00:51

You'd think he'd have learnt from Ken Livingstone's experience of trying to teach (Jewish) grandmothers to suck eggs...

wellhelloitsme · 29/05/2022 00:45

Fuck me, he's just said that those 'those angry with' him should click on his handy link which has more information about the holocaust.

He's said that. He's actually typed that out. And addressed it to all the Jewish people who commented explaining why his comment was so offensive.

Fucking hell. The narcissism of this man to tell Jewish people to read up on the holocaust.

Mandodari · 29/05/2022 00:38

@ChagSameachDoreen
I don't blame you, it's stomach turning. Brag seems desperate to make himself relevant and it is shocking that he is prepared to co-opt the suffering of those murdered during the Shoah to do so.
Try not to left the twerp upset you, he really isn't worth your thoughts. 💐

dropthevipers · 29/05/2022 00:35

Think Bragg has just joined the irredeemable fuckwit club (Along with Creasy, Lammy, Nandy, Cohen, Kelly , Jones etc.)

lifeissweet · 29/05/2022 00:29

And Jonathan Ross has replied: 'what a prick', which is nice

lifeissweet · 29/05/2022 00:28

The ratio is immense.
Of his 300k follower, around 105 have liked it so far. But over a thousand have retweeted to tear him apart. The comments are full of fury.

Will he back down? Nope.

But it's heartening to see how many people just aren't accepting this.

PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 00:27

ChagSameachDoreen · 28/05/2022 23:37

As a Jew I find this very upsetting.

I'm not surprised. His behaviour tonight has scraped the barrel, broken through the bottom of it and scraped a subterranean oubliette below. Where I hope all his music - past, present and future - falls in!

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PurgatoryOfPotholes · 29/05/2022 00:24

This reply has been deleted

This post is offensive

I'd rephrase that as, "having survived the holocaust, those who founded Israel (who included camp survivors) drew up immigration legislation that would make Israel an accessible refuge for all those who would need it."

Of course they weren't going to have tight definitions of jewish that excluded people who were explicitly targeted for being of jewish descent. That would be absurd.

When anti-semitic far right nationalists start being really selective about who they target for being jewish, then Israel may tighten up its entry criteria too.

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MissyCooperismyShero · 29/05/2022 00:16

Israel doesn't claim that having a Jewish grandparent has given anyone different biology. Just that it imparts a right to live in Israel.

Mollyollydolly · 29/05/2022 00:07

He's the lowest of the low. He crossed a line with that tonight. Absolutely vile.

Thelandedgentry · 28/05/2022 23:52

This reply has been deleted

This post is offensive

Thelandedgentry · 28/05/2022 23:50

donquixotedelamancha · 28/05/2022 22:47

Being Jewish is not biology, it's culture and religion.

At this stage I think expecting any level of sense from Billy Bragg is a waste of time.

What he says is rubbish. However, there is a biology aspect to being Jewish. Israel considers anyone who has a Jewish grandparent to be Jewish and entitled to live in Israel, regardless of whether they believe in the religion or follow any Jewish practices. You can be both Jewish and an atheist.

Johnnysgirl · 28/05/2022 23:38

ChagSameachDoreen · 28/05/2022 23:37

As a Jew I find this very upsetting.

Flowers Just ignore the gobshite.
ChagSameachDoreen · 28/05/2022 23:37

As a Jew I find this very upsetting.