Stella Creasy says women can have penises

Think that was Nadia Whittome.

I'm not convinced Anneliese Dodds understands the issues well enough to be trusted.

In the Westminster Hall debate, on legal recognition of non binary identities, she referred to "intersex" people as if that term was synonymous with non binary rather than DSD's being a totally unrelated to gender identity. She was corrected and claimed she didn't intend to conflate the two but if she knew the difference then why mention anything to do with DSD's at all.

I suspect she is either very ignorant about women's concerns or she is doing a Jess Phillips.

Thanks for the Spectator article link which is a good summary.

Has she gone to her favourite line of "a trans child in my constituency...." yet?

This creepy little narrative she has about gender critical women being genitally obsessed is unworthy of her position. Obviously nobody sensible ever wanted to be in a situation where we were so particular about the physical differences between females and males with dysphoria. It was necessary because people like Nandy were refusing to acknowledge that males can’t ‘become’ females. Which they can’t.

Nandy is a disgrace.

Of course she is, Nandy thinks male rapists should be allowed to self ID into the female prison estate.

Lisa Nandy is on board with Stella.

twitter.com/LBC/status/1531189589960007682

It is vital Creasy does not remain MP for anywhere. The business of legislation is far too important to let tin foil hat nutters anywhere near it.

Annelise Dodds has put on record that she disagrees with Creasy on this. Stella clarifying her own position (in the bonkers direction) has forced the shadow women and equalities minister to clarify her own in a saner direction.

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/05/29/anneliese-dodds-stella-creasy-wrong-woman-cant-have-penis/

There is an archive version online.

"Ms Dodds, who is also shadow women and equalities secretary, said: “No, I don’t agree with her. Biological females obviously aren't.
“Of course, there are also trans women who have made a transition in their gender, but sex is not the same as gender."

“Obviously, I have a huge amount of respect for my colleague Stella Creasy, she has done a huge amount of campaigning for women - but on that issue around biology, I do have a different opinion.” "

She is at least recognising that sex exists and is different to gender identity.

In the house of commons there was recently a debate on recognising non binary identity. Dodds said some stuff i didn't agree with, especially where she lacked clarity and precision, but she did say this which I think is significant. I agree with this on the face if it (tho the devil is in the detail, my emph)

"We also need to acknowledge that, of course, as well as gender, sex continues to play an important role in different areas of policy. As I have repeatedly made clear in my role as shadow Secretary of State for Women and Equalities, sex is not the same thing as gender and both are important in different contexts. That difference is reflected in legislation. For example, as a woman I am an adult female—that is my biological sex. There are, of course, also trans women who have made a transition in their gender, and they deserve respect and dignity also."

hansard.parliament.uk/commons/2022-05-23/debates/040FB4A1-8C3F-4F03-BB10-29FD4A6E24FE/LegalRecognitionOfNon-BinaryGenderIdentities

It's important that creasy never becomes minister for women.

Julie Bindel has an excellent article in the Spectator on Creasey

www.spectator.co.uk/article/what-stella-creasy-gets-wrong-about-trans-rights

The vote is back on Walthamstow Life - with additions by members of the group.

Quite interesting to see that even asking a question about something an MP has said gets you labelled by other members of the group.

In distorting public opinion, preference falsification also corrupts public discourse and, hence, human knowledge

Yes. Putin's quite a fan.

I wondered why I couldn't see anything about it on the local Facebook groups.

It's realtime preference falsification in a fashion that exceeds the fantasies of prior repressive, authoritarian, and totalitarian movements.

www.hup.harvard.edu/catalog.php?isbn=9780674707580

Preference falsification, according to the economist Timur Kuran, is the act of misrepresenting one’s wants under perceived social pressures. It happens frequently in everyday life, such as when we tell the host of a dinner party that we are enjoying the food when we actually find it bland. In Private Truths, Public Lies, Kuran argues convincingly that the phenomenon not only is ubiquitous but has huge social and political consequences. Drawing on diverse intellectual traditions, including those rooted in economics, psychology, sociology, and political science, Kuran provides a unified theory of how preference falsification shapes collective decisions, orients structural change, sustains social stability, distorts human knowledge, and conceals political possibilities.

A common effect of preference falsification is the preservation of widely disliked structures. Another is the conferment of an aura of stability on structures vulnerable to sudden collapse. When the support of a policy, tradition, or regime is largely contrived, a minor event may activate a bandwagon that generates massive yet unanticipated change.

In distorting public opinion, preference falsification also corrupts public discourse and, hence, human knowledge. So structures held in place by preference falsification may, if the condition lasts long enough, achieve increasingly genuine acceptance. The book demonstrates how human knowledge and social structures co-evolve in complex and imperfectly predictable ways, without any guarantee of social efficiency.

I don't think it's surprising that Facebook seems more TWAW than Twitter.

Most people are anonymous on Twitter, whereas on Facebook people post under their real names. They don't want to be branded transphobic, or risk social justice vigilantes screen shotting anything they say, stalking them on LinkedIn to find out where they work and dropping them in it with a Stonewalled HR department.

Is that on facebook? Maybe this is why twaw seems to be the consensus on fb, even more than on twitter. I'm not on either, so just speculating.

The whole 'if we don't let you say the words we can pretend it isn't happening' thing not really working out.

@TrailWhale That's appalling, but hopefully a good sign that Labour is starting to wake up to the fact that "women can have penises" has gone down like a bucketful of cold sick with a lot of voters.

Any reference to this in the local social media groups is automatically being deleted - or very soon after being posted. Absolutely shocking that there is no where (as far as I can see) that is allowing comments that Stella Creasy has made to be discussed.

Hi @Ereshkigalangcleg!

I saw your other post about me and am quite tickled by the whole thing.

I do indeed walk among you, or rather, lurk among you. I'm not nearly as active on here as I am on the other site because I love a good argument and, well, 99% of Mumsnet users already agree with me!

Off again now before I have some sort of name change fail.

I have an account there and lurk! I may post some time.

Yup, Stella's managed to prove that at least one woman actually is a prick.