Stella Creasy says women can have penises

But if that is the best SC can come up, it’s unsurprising that there might be people making a case to repeal the law that’s causing the confusion.

Absolutely. If the GRA is being misinterpreted as "TWAW", then it's a very strong argument for its repeal, as that is clearly not an idea worth of respect in a democratic society.

This was, of course, warned about during debates of the GRA - the potential knock-on effects of legislating a falsehood. But it wasn't taken seriously enough.

We have now got the benefit of 16 years of hindsight - if this practical demonstration of the effects had been visible in 2004, there's no way the bill would have passed.

All she keeps coming back to us ‘TWAW is the law’. Actually it’s not. The census case made that clear. Some people who would describe themselves as transwomen (not a legal term) have the legal status ‘female’ for most purposes. Others have the protected characteristic of gender reassignment but that doesn’t make them legally female, and nor are they women.

But if that is the best SC can come up, it’s unsurprising that there might be people making a case to repeal the law that’s causing the confusion.

This. I suppose women have always shat on others in order to climb the greasy pole but when the stakes are so high it's unforgivable.

Huge disappointment. She was an excellent constituency MP when she started out. Really got things done. But casually chucking women's single-sex rights away, and ignoring child-safety concerns -- that outweighs any good she's done.

I see she has had a go a Jon Pike now on twitter. As though GC academics have not enough pressure from inside their institutions she is questioning his professional competence and say she 'fears' for his students. Is she anti-free-speech as well? Creasey disgusts me, absolutely disgusts me.

He mustered a more dignified response that she deserved - and a useful one to borrow from if you ever get into these arguments yourself - I think he is very clear.

twitter.com/runthinkwrite/status/1530335492495101952

Interesting wording to say, “I think some women were born with penises BUT they are now female.”

To me that implies that she doesn’t know 90% + still have a penis.

What the fuck has any of this got to do with ‘sexual preferences’ or ‘gays and lesbians’?

I want to understand her so I can critique what she is saying. I’m not seeking to get her to agree.

To try and explain further: if you head onto the relationships board and find any one of the many threads around 'how do I just explain to my MiL so she really understands that doing x upsets me, causes havoc in our lives, makes us miserable, wrecks our relationship - we've tried everything and nothing changes'.

The issue is never that they haven't explained or haven't explained enough. They believe that if they could just find the right words, she'd understand and go oh yes! Gosh! Really sorry, yes now I see the problem, let's find a better way for us both.

She won't. Because it isn't that she doesn't understand. It's that behaving in this way meets her needs, and so she is fine with the impact the behaviour has on others. It works for her.

"Do I recognise that there are very real concerns about refuges and safe spaces? Yes"

But in Stellaworld, special penis people ARE adult human females, so and it's female spaces so 🤷

What she should have followed that statement up with if she was being honest was: And am I going to ignore those concerns in favour of the feelings of some men? Yes, yes I am.

A woman can have a penis indeed, what utter claptrap. She's made herself an utter laughing stock. Can't see her coming back onto MN for any online Q&As after that!

‘But women have spent years patiently working on trying to in the belief that it must somehow make sense if they try hard enough and listen carefully enough, and while we've spent that time and energy in the belief we're dealing with equal good faith and just haven't yet tried hard enough to get it or explain enough how this destroys women's rights and why that matters?’

Not at all. I’m 100% certain that no justification for the proposition will make sense. I still want to understand the path she has taken to get to her (wrong) position.

I'm afraid that's my point.

You never will understand it. She doesn't understand it. Nobody understands it. As painfully evidenced in AB's court case.

But women have spent years patiently working on trying to in the belief that it must somehow make sense if they try hard enough and listen carefully enough, and while we've spent that time and energy in the belief we're dealing with equal good faith and just haven't yet tried hard enough to get it or explain enough how this destroys women's rights and why that matters?

Women's rights have been shoved further down the drain. Because it's largely a lot of distracting noise to cover the real actions.

Not by any means criticising you, but this is one of the biggest weaknesses women who want to retain their rights have: this careful attempt to be reasonable is never going to be reciprocated, it's just going to be taken as a sign of weakness, and taken full advantage of.

I get that but I don’t think I mean I’m trying to understand why men can be women.

Because they want to, and who are we to say "no"?

It's neoliberal through-and-through. (Which is why I always associate this stuff with the Labour right...)

Stella really does consider herself to be terribly enlightened, doesn’t she? Ahead in her thinking as she patiently waits for all of us stupid dinosaurs to catch up with her progressive views.

No, Stella, you are simply a desperate, fawning pick me girl who thinks that the men will like her better if she agrees that men are women. We have seen women like you time and again throughout history. Pathetic, treacherous collaborators who will throw other women to the wolves if it gets them head pats from the men. History does not remember these women kindly, and one day, if you are remembered at all, you will be looked back on in the sane way, with the contempt you so richly deserve.

They are!

i live in Stella's constituency and many are starting to really dislike her now. She didn't respond to many of the request re info for refugees or a meeting prior to the votes, she was too firmly arguing with a bus company as she'd been asked to collapse her pram or disembark, or arguing about the lack of lift at the station due to it being hard for a double pram (she later picked up on teh wheelchair aspect AFTER it was pointed out. (weirdly enough haven't seen her argue about the lack of toilets for people with disabilities at the station which has been going on for months since they were closed).

She didn't pick up on the fact that many women don't get maternity leave whilst keeping their job and that this isn't something that just affects MPs... then she suddenly partnered with PBS and suddenly seems to be the voice of all women and maternity leave, but yet still only talks about MPs for the changes in legislation.

Artichoke

I get that but I don’t think I mean I’m trying to understand why men can be women. I’m trying to understand her argument so I can reasonably refute it.

This is what is depressing, she's my MP and otherwise a good one.

I’m desperately trying to understand.

Ever read any of Chump Lady's blog?

She frequently counsels bewildered, unhappy women trying to make sense of their ex's stories and complexities and reasons for why they are treating her in this way, and leaving and coming back, and finding themselves, and trying to work out whether to pick her or the mistress they had an affair with, and why they needed to have an affair....

and her advice is, will you look at the space this person has managed to take up in your head? The time and energy you are devoting to try and work out the wonder of them? How complex they are?

And how much drama and verbal muddle is working really well for them to dominate you, your time, your attention, your energy like a puppet on a flipping string?

Slightly off topic but I'm always amused by the babble art critics come out with, and found this online phrase generator to create the impressive sounding but meaningless phrases.
www.pixmaven.com/phrase_generator.html

I wonder if Stella is using a tweaked version for her new definitions? Seems plausible to me.

Just seen this tweet, she's on a hiding to nothing if she thinks she can get more than a tiny % of the population to nod along with her new definition of female

That's disappointing to read. I would have thought local people were more sensible, perhaps the Facebook demographic is more 'woke'.

They're all intellectual zombies by year 13 and are easy to mould and believe any shite at UG level. There is no critical thinking at all, it's scary.

Article from the US on that subject (via Bari Weiss' substack):

We Aren't Raising Adults. We Are Breeding Very Excellent Sheep.

I taught English at Yale University for ten years. I had some vivid, idiosyncratic students—people who went on to write novels, devote themselves to their church, or just wander the world for a few years. But mostly I taught what one of them herself called “excellent sheep.”

These students were excellent, technically speaking. They were smart, focused, and ferociously hard-working.

But they were also sheep: stunted in their sense of purpose, waiting meekly for direction, frequently anxious and lost.

[...]

Eventually, I recognized the deeper continuities at work. Excellent sheephood, like wokeness, is a species of conformity. As a friend who works at an elite private university recently remarked, if the kids who get into such schools are experts at anything, it is, as he put it, “hacking the meritocracy.” The process is imitative: You do what you see the adults you aspire to be like doing. If that means making woke-talk (on your college application; in class, so professors will like you), then that is what you do.

Her latest attempt to explain why she is using woman and female interchangeably to mean either male or female person who has a female identity. Apparently it’s because those horrible gender critical women insist on having a word for themselves:

‘this may make sense if categories weren't contested and that being a power issue. The abusive emails now pouring into my inbox reflect both woman and female used interchangeably. And a refusal to recognise transwomen as either.’

Because they are not women. Women are female.

This is perfect. I am all for trans equality, equality of all but I object to being pushed down as a woman for it to happen. that is not equality.