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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Stella Creasy says women can have penises

517 replies

WhereAreWeNow · 28/05/2022 06:13

Stella Creasy has doubled down on her TWAW position in today's Telegraph www.telegraph.co.uk/women/life/stella-creasy-jk-rowling-wrong-woman-can-have-penis/

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PronounssheRa · 29/05/2022 15:09

I agree. The baby in the chamber WAS performative. And ridiculous. And very very middle class me me me.

I agree, there is a nursery at Parliament that Stella could have used, in the same way that all working mothers have to make childcare arrangements.

Basketet · 29/05/2022 15:06

Yeah, No. Stella is a middle class white woman, parachuted to power by an All Woman Shortlist, who thinks the work revolves around her and her middle class pursuits, and is ok to crap on other women, whilst pulling the ladder up after her.

This is spot on. Many MC professionals - who've been fed with a silver spoon - who I've come across can barely see past their own noses, regardless of political leaning.

ResisterRex · 29/05/2022 14:59
  • Yeah, No. Stella is a middle class white woman, parachuted to power by an All Woman Shortlist, who thinks the work revolves around her and her middle class pursuits, and is ok to crap on other women, whilst pulling the ladder up after her.

And yes, taking the baby into Parliament was performative. She earns £80K a year, plus expenses, and has a significant other in the picture with, to co-parent with. She could have either paid for childcare, or got her partner to take of the baby on that occasion, with some expressed milk, if she's breast feeding. It was her second baby, so not exactly her first trip to the rodeo.

Can you tell me why she couldn't sort herself with all those resources and yet women on half her wages, some with no co-parent in the picture, managed to sort out their lives and their children without this Stella circus/ drama? It's ridiculous!*

I agree. The baby in the chamber WAS performative. And ridiculous. And very very middle class me me me.

She must be completely wedded to TWAW to say what she did in the Torygraph. If she's that daft that she didn't see the fallout in the Sue Gray week, then she's not smart enough to be party of any Cabinet leading this country.

HatefulHaberdashery · 29/05/2022 14:15

PronounssheRa · 29/05/2022 09:13

I think the whole point is to get rid of the language that enables women to talk about ourselves in terms of our sex

Agreed, but as a law maker Stella must see the problem this creates. If there is no word that can be used just for women, how does Stella propose laws around maternity protections and misogyny etc are worded. Because in her world women with penises, would be included in maternity protections.

Precisely this. The hypocrisy needed to justify her linguistic gymanstics are astonishing.

HatefulHaberdashery · 29/05/2022 14:10

PermanentTemporary · 29/05/2022 13:07

It's the Telegraph. They'll prioritise their own agenda in what they put highest up in the interview, and theyll be keen to sabotage a really impressive Labour woman (which she still is to me). But she should know that.

I will admit to a reluctant admiration of her saying something so bloody stupid in public which she must know will sound ridiculous, and doubling down with it. She's not a coward, anyway. And her story about threatened gang rape at university is horrible. She's taken action for female MPs and women in NI. The people calling her 'performative' for taking her baby into the House of Commons are despicable. I just wish she would damn well connect the dots.

Yeah, No. Stella is a middle class white woman, parachuted to power by an All Woman Shortlist, who thinks the work revolves around her and her middle class pursuits, and is ok to crap on other women, whilst pulling the ladder up after her.

And yes, taking the baby into Parliament was performative. She earns £80K a year, plus expenses, and has a significant other in the picture with, to co-parent with. She could have either paid for childcare, or got her partner to take of the baby on that occasion, with some expressed milk, if she's breast feeding. It was her second baby, so not exactly her first trip to the rodeo.

Can you tell me why she couldn't sort herself with all those resources and yet women on half her wages, some with no co-parent in the picture, managed to sort out their lives and their children without this Stella circus/ drama? It's ridiculous!

dinosauriam · 29/05/2022 13:53

The Daily Telegraph is often very critical of Boris Johnson's government...too left-wing, too green, not taking advantage of Brexit etc.
They allow all kinds of opinions though unlike the Guardian.

dinosauriam · 29/05/2022 13:51

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 13:36

I'm admittedly dim at working out how politics works.. So do you maybe think the Telegraph were playing a political Torygraph game in publishing this?

Ie a front page article they knew Creasy would be crucified for - so as to deflect attention from PartyGate?

If so, brilliant politics

Possibly but the thing is it was an interview with Creasy with a glamorous photo and no comments made really at all by the journalist. It was 'this is what she said in her own words....what do you think readers as the subtext?' They then deleted all the comments below the article completely which I do not understand at all if it were a purely political agenda, as 99% comments were against Creasy obviously.

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 13:36

PermanentTemporary · 29/05/2022 13:07

It's the Telegraph. They'll prioritise their own agenda in what they put highest up in the interview, and theyll be keen to sabotage a really impressive Labour woman (which she still is to me). But she should know that.

I will admit to a reluctant admiration of her saying something so bloody stupid in public which she must know will sound ridiculous, and doubling down with it. She's not a coward, anyway. And her story about threatened gang rape at university is horrible. She's taken action for female MPs and women in NI. The people calling her 'performative' for taking her baby into the House of Commons are despicable. I just wish she would damn well connect the dots.

I'm admittedly dim at working out how politics works.. So do you maybe think the Telegraph were playing a political Torygraph game in publishing this?

Ie a front page article they knew Creasy would be crucified for - so as to deflect attention from PartyGate?

If so, brilliant politics

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/05/2022 13:18

And her story about threatened gang rape at university is horrible

Agreed about her failure to join the dots. She was DARVO'd then by the college. And, here she is, DARVOing on behalf of a largely similar set of people with a striking resemblance to those who threatened her then, and, somehow, she is not seeing it.

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 13:15

Dodds dithers a lot, says one sensible statement then another two which are TRA -like. Doddery might sum it up. She speaks here (was last Monday I believe).

www.parliamentlive.tv/Event/Index/caa37f9a-b1fd-4d17-b0c7-7130035210ff

I'd say she's just distancing herself from Creasy on social media because she's a politician and is seeing the ratio.
But she must also think Creasy is a fool. TWAW ok, (not ok) but TW are female? Even for Dodds that would've crossed a line.

RaspberryToo · 29/05/2022 13:13

I'm glad she recognises that sex and gender are different maybe she is starting to give this more thought.

She doesn't - she says the definitions are still being defined in one of her tweets. FFS.

PermanentTemporary · 29/05/2022 13:07

It's the Telegraph. They'll prioritise their own agenda in what they put highest up in the interview, and theyll be keen to sabotage a really impressive Labour woman (which she still is to me). But she should know that.

I will admit to a reluctant admiration of her saying something so bloody stupid in public which she must know will sound ridiculous, and doubling down with it. She's not a coward, anyway. And her story about threatened gang rape at university is horrible. She's taken action for female MPs and women in NI. The people calling her 'performative' for taking her baby into the House of Commons are despicable. I just wish she would damn well connect the dots.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 29/05/2022 12:46

PronounssheRa · 29/05/2022 12:44

This has just reopened the 'can a woman have a penis' question for Labour at a time when they should be holding the tory party to account after the grey report.

Slow hand clap Stella, your political awareness really is something.

Is this a deliberate sabotage? SC didn't like Starmer's overtures of alleged willingness to speak to Labour Women and this is how she derails it?

PronounssheRa · 29/05/2022 12:44

This has just reopened the 'can a woman have a penis' question for Labour at a time when they should be holding the tory party to account after the grey report.

Slow hand clap Stella, your political awareness really is something.

Floisme · 29/05/2022 12:43

If I were Keir Starmer, I'd be sending someone round to Stella's to take the Twitter keys off her right now, before she blows up his entire 'I support self-ID and single sex spaces' act.

PronounssheRa · 29/05/2022 12:40

Jesus, is she still at it. Someone who cares about her should take her away from the Internet for the day.

On Dodds, I'm glad she recognises that sex and gender are different maybe she is starting to give this more thought.

Franca123 · 29/05/2022 12:31

She / they / he is a coward.

ResisterRex · 29/05/2022 12:29

Creasy's own words on the two-year requirement pre-GRC application:

"That brings up all sorts of questions about what is a woman in terms of gender – what does it mean to live as a woman? I wear flat shoes, I’ve got terrible bunions, is someone going to tell me that living as a woman means you have to wear high heels for two years?""

Totally clear!! 🤪

PrelateChuckles · 29/05/2022 12:28

And yeah, it's so transparent.
"Women are female people and some female people with a penis"
"Female includes people with a penis"
"female and male are not separate, we don't have words for them"
"Women includes male people"

"WHAT?!?!??! YOU WANT TO CALL SOME WOMEN 'MEN'!??!?! How can you use language like this, it's unthinkable??!"

PrelateChuckles · 29/05/2022 12:24

^ word salad OF insults at me.... typo, not me mispresenting SC!

PrelateChuckles · 29/05/2022 12:22

Stella using the phrase 'throw the word salad at insults at me' has infuriated me. Everything Julie has said in that tweet was clear. Unlike Stella's position on what a woman is or isn't. "Word salad" means obfuscating and hiding your actual "logic" behind jargon and tangents. Not just 'saying a sentence with lots of words in'.

God, she is absolutely insufferable. I'm convinced from that she's deliberately misleading and misrepresenting now.

Justme56 · 29/05/2022 12:18

I see Anneliese Dodds isn’t agreeing with Stella (Sophyridgesky). Sees a difference between gender and sex! Do you think someone had a quiet word at Labour HQ!

NecessaryScene · 29/05/2022 12:12

Rarely do you see ratioing like this on Twitter, but I'll just post the text

Julie Bindel: [at]stellacreasy. I reckon I know more than you do about women in prison, having worked on the issue as a campaigner since setting up [at]justice4women in 1990. You clearly do not realise, what with your virtue signalling and slagging off fine feminists in your quest to be seen as a brave warrior, fighting for the "most marginalised". In the meantime the REAL most marginalised - women in prison - are suffering. So many have told me that ALL those incarcerated are terrified of these 'transwomen' because they have carte blanche, thanks to the likes of you to act with impunity. Have a think. Rather than encouraging a pile-on against women who do ACTUAL work to prevent male violence and support the women suffering it, why don't you just listen to the facts, and face them at the same time? Yours, a feminist who gets things done.

Stella Creasy: Hello julie, why does it have to be an either or? You can throw the word salad of insults at me or we could get prison reform back on agenda together as surely that’s something we can agree on? I said I disagreed with people - I haven’t used terms like virtue signalling etc.

JB: I am defending the most disenfranchised women in society, Stella, not insulting you. You have been clear in your view that male rapists should be prioritised over women's safety, when it comes to 'transwomen' in prison. I would no sooner trust you with reforming our prison system than I would Billy Bragg. I think you know fine well that men ID'ing as women are still men, and that the whole 'some women have penises' is ridiculous. It is far easier for politicians to hold your line than it is brave ones such as [at]RosieDuffield1

SC: It seems there needs to be some honesty here from you and those who don’t consider trans women to be women that you wish to continue to call them men. Because if not the case then there is a very small group of women who were born with a penis and in some cases retain it.

Jane Clare Jones: You know Stella, there are many of us who wanted to be able to resolve this situation while retaining polite social conventions with respect to addressing trans women. As this conflict has progressed, more and more women have become convinced that under the current political circumstances that's not possible, because women's concern to be polite has been so massively leveraged against them to try and destroy our existence as a sex based political class, and the rights afforded to us on that basis.

You couldn't have done more to prove them right.

[Jane Clare Jones then continues as a QT of Creasy's "small group of women retaining a penis" tweet.]

We have been completely clear that we wish to continue to be able to describe the reality of human sex. Because female people are oppressed on the basis of sex. And female people need sex based spaces and resources.

It is extremely disingenuous to just frame that as 'you wish to continue to call them men' as if all we are motivated by is a desire to be mean and spiteful for no reason.

As you suggest Stella, if we do not insist on continuing to name the reality of sex, then people like you are going to claim that the class of female people now contains male people, that some male people were somehow born female people, and on that basis, are going to further insist that all of female people's spaces and resources become, de facto, mixed sex.

This is about the political erasure of sex. The political erasure of the axis of our oppression. The redefinition of our class in law from a sex based to a gender identity based definition. And the effort to reorganise all social provision previously allocated on the basis of sex.

It is not even remotely reasonable to ask women to accept that.

A demand for that kind of political abnegation does not even remotely fall under the remit of 'being kind.'

Indeed, it is extremely unkind to try and manipulate, intimidate and gaslight women into this kind of political abnegation.

We will not consent to the political erasure of female people as a class, and to the political erasure of the rights and resources afforded to us on that basis.

No matter how many times you imply that we are terrible awful meanies...

TheLadyDIdGood · 29/05/2022 12:12

MrsMidClegs · 29/05/2022 12:01

She has gone completely and utterly mad.

Irregardless of all the vileness and stupidity she displayed yesterday, even if you'd not known any of that, a newcomer today seeing her belittling Julie Bindel (or trying to) today shows the whole world she is extremely thick.

Absolutely this and extremely dangerous....