How is being trans like being LGB?

All human beings have a sexual orientation either heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual.

A transgender person has a sexual orientation based on their sex, again either heterosexual, homosexual, bisexual or asexual.

Historically, the linking of LGB and T was because some (not all) Transgender people (with gender dysphoria) were also homosexual or bisexual. Although historically they were not always welcomed by the LGB community.

Time has moved on and transgender now includes many people (mainly males) who are heterosexual and who have paraphilias including exhibitionism, voyeurism, AGP, pedophilia, frotteurism etc. The presentation as a TW enables them to be in female spaces where they can fulfill their heterosexual paraphilic needs.

Paraphilias are completely different to gender dysphoria but the wide spread acceptance into the transgender umbrella is the crux of the debate. It is why women, including lesbians, historically accepted TW with gender dysphoria into female spaces but now consider TW with paraphilias a threat in female spaces.

Rapid Onset Gender Dysphoria, primarily in teenage girls, is a separate but equally concerning issue. I am hopeful the Cass Review will set out an appropriate, scientific approach to protect girls from making life changing decisions before they have explored all the options.

Can you explain further how the challenges you face are similar. Surely it is fair to say in 2022 in the UK at least that same sex attraction has been widely accepted and supported for the last 2 decades or more. In fact to not accept that would now be way outside the mainstream. So how is this "challenge" intertwined with the issues faced by people who fall under the T umbrella and what are those issues?

There's also the cultural/geographic difference: there is more of a tradition of gay/same-sex-attracted males having 'feminising' surgery in 'Latin'/Catholic-majority countries and cultures and in the USA more generally. I would imagine homophobia plays into that: the UK has (or had) more ease around homosexuality and 'gender bending' (think of all those pop stars in the 70s and 80s who became mainstream UK teatime TV fixtures).

If you think of it on the Kinsey scale say 1 (heterosexual) to 10 (homosexual), transsexual would be 11, which is extreme homosexuality. And this ties up well with the theory about hormones the baby receives whilst in the womb (not enough testosterone for a boy and his a gay, too much for a girl and she is gay). You could say that even less testosterone for a boy and he would be trans, way too much for a girl would be trans too.

Now from this people would say "what about the heterosexual men who transition" and I would say that they are likely to be AGP, and that anyone who is not homosexual should not be considered for gender reassignment (this would also protect a lot of the girls with rapid onset gender dysmorphia).

Not saying everyone who is gay should transition (that is conversion therapy), just saying that there should be certain gates for this, and heterosexual people shouldn't be able to pass the first gate.

The LGB community and the T community are both marginalized as a result of their community being (1) intrinsically linked to issues of sex and gender; and (2) not having a traditional hetronormative attitudes to sex and gender.

Unfortunately for people who think that this makes them obvious bedfellows one could also make the following statement.

The KKK and BLM are both marginalized as a result of their community being (1) intrinsically linked to issues of race and racism; and (2) not sharing the mainstream view of race and racism.

They're all human. That's it.
Of course, some of those humans consider themselves way more important than other humans, but humanity, for what it's worth (feck all, it appears), is the only connection.

And threatening people with suicide if they didn't comply. Never saw that.

"Most of us find the current hostility against trans people pretty upsetting, not least because it’s so reminiscent of what we faced in the past."
I'm old. Don't recall gay men, lesbians and bisexual people demanding we change our language and blur our boundaries.

Perfectly expressed

Helen8220 · Today 11:02

Most of us find the current hostility against trans people pretty upsetting, not least because it’s so reminiscent of what we faced in the past.

How do you feel about same sex attrached people being called a bigot and violently threatened by TRAs because they refuse to sleep with someone of the opposite sex but (allegedly) same gender?

Most of us find the current hostility against trans people pretty upsetting, not least because it’s so reminiscent of what we faced in the past.

i don’t know any gay, lesbian or bisexual people in real life (speaking as one myself) who don’t see that the LGBT+ community is fundamentally intertwined and the challenges we face are closely connected. I know there are LGB people out there who feel differently, but I don’t think that’s the majority view.

If that were true why do so many gay people reject the idea that trans is related to homosexuality? Is it internalised homophobia that lesbians reject trans women? It strikes me more that many gay people honestly don't believe making changes to your appearance have anything to do with what your sex or sexuality are. Just as many hetero people think. Its a big leap of faith to accept a strangers word that they really are a different sex (not to mention a big risk in certain situations).

What has made them alike is that the lobby group Stonewall now get most of their funding from trans interests. Its a powerful wealthy global organisation that needed a new source of income, hence the rainbow alphabet soup was born.

Transwomen were always welcome at the gay clubs I used to frequent back in the day but any who started to hit on lesbians would have been given short shrift

Some camp gay men wear make-up and cross dress: some butch lesbians wear male clothing and cultivate a masculine look. But traditionally they were allowed to be proud of being gender non-conforming men and women.

Then along came queer theory and the denial of the body, and you are what you wear.

Because the prejudice and stigma faced by people who experience same sex attraction and have same sex relationships, and that faced by people who are gender non-confirming, trans or non-binary, stem from the same source - the fact that they do not conform to norms and expectations regarding how a person should feel, behave and present, on the basis of their biology.

As I understand it, the connection is that historically a gay person coming out, prior to wide social acceptance of homosexuality, was told:

a) You'll grow out of it. It's a phase.
b) Nonsense, you just haven't met the right person yet
c) How grotesque and abnormal. That is not the natural way of man and woman
d) Just bury it. Normal life is so much easier.

These are all criticisms/advice currently levelled at trans people.

There are colossal differences but these are the similarities.

But then wouldn’t all minority groups be lumped together too seeing as they don’t even need to be about the same thing?

Are you serious?? Er….BAME…

Its obvious why T was added to LGB initially. A lot of T people were traditionally gay men or lesbians, and were treated as different or perverted, like gays and lesbians were, so it made sense. I’m fairly sure you know that?
What T has now become is far removed from what it was, and there’s another matter, but the reasons they were considered similar are obvious.

At a push marginalised.
Although as op have pointed out LGB less so now.
I’m keeping a close eye on the rest of the alphabet spaghetti.

Feelingoktoday · Today 08:45

I don’t understand what you are asking.

LGB is about sex.
Trans is gender ie how you identify.

they are entirely different.

any letters after LGB are about identity ie queer, etc.

Well, LGB is not about sex, it is about sexual orientation. Trans people are - by definition - binary males or females just like the LGB community and us boring, old, should-be-euthanized-really, straight people. But, I think that many in the TQ+ community probably do see it as being about sex, as in "doing it".

I think that - in the eyes of many in the TQ+ community - trans people are just like the LGB community because they are all part of a sex-obsessed, kinky, fetishistic, interesting, queer, movement, distinct from the boring vanilla straight sex that inferior right wing people have.

Really interesting question op. I can see the one is sexuality, one is identity argument.

I presume it was about being in a minority, but then you could say T has more in common with different minority groups.

There is a sexual element with T as Stonewall et al opened up definition to include people who are AGP or simply dress up as a fetish. But then this isn't necessarily same sex attraction.

I think it's confusing and makes it too easy for (certain) people to cry bigotry if someone disagrees with aspects of modern T activism/ideology as they've been lumped in with LGB.

No-one really cares if people are gay or straight these days, it is perfectly normal to be either. What is not normal is that people are being asked to deny biological reality and that Stonewall and their trans rights agenda have too much power and influence. I still don't know what rights trans people want that they don't already have in 21st Century Britain. Trans people have the same rights as everyone else, they do not deserve or have more or less rights than the rest of the population.

I personally don't see the link between LGB sexualities and gender identities. It is Stonewall etc that have made this link as they needed a new cause to continue functioning/making money/having influence.