How language has changed in 6 years

Doesn't mean medical professionals should constantly misgender trans people by the way.

Well, yes, I'd agree that medical records need to include sex.

Sex matters. Fucking crucial, in many instances, in fact.

“but he told the nurse he was transgender when he arrived at the hospital.”

“The nurse did order a pregnancy test, but she still marked him stable and his case non-urgent.”

Not an issue of unclear language.

Also:

“They note that transgender people should be able to legally change their sex for a number of reasons, "including safety, health insurance, employment, housing, and restroom use." Therefore, taking away transgender people's ability to legally change their sex is not the solution. However, making sure that all medical records include sex at birth, gender identity, and legal sex could help people get the care they need and deserve.”

You're not mad about "not being able to call yourselves women", you're mad about not getting to assert exclusivity.

No we are angry about people from another sex group appropriating the word that describes who we are as a sex group. The fact that those doing the appropriating come from the group that has traditionally oppressed women for millenia just rubs salt into the wound.

'When a man arrived at the emergency room with severe abdominal pains, a nurse took note that he was obese and had stopped taking blood pressure medicine, but she didn't consider his case an emergency.
...
The man delivered a stillborn baby shortly after.'

People can call themselves what they will. It isn't always a sensible thing to do, however, and can have consequences.

www.health.com/condition/pregnancy/transgender-man-pregnant

You can call yourself whatever the hell you like @SeldomHere but when it comes to biological reality, clear language is important.

What’s wrong with trans woman or trans man?

Haven’t you just used the same words?

What are you finding offensive?

Frankly, why should we care?

It's not as though you care about the offense you cause to trans people with any of your terminology, so why should we give a damn if our terminology offends you?

In terms of the op I agree language has changed to our detriment

I very much hope this changes now for women

Are you calling us 'mad'? How very ableist of you.

@334bu
> So obviously you believe that it is possible to change your sex class.

Nope, I contest the notion that the labels of "man" and "woman" are "sex class", rather than merely socially constructed gender categories built around sex (i.e. not sex itself)

I also do not accept cis and think people who continue to use it are ignoring the offence it causes many women

Why should any trans person accept your terms and definitions, when trans women and trans men (two separate words, an adjective and a noun) are already defined as women and men respectively in dictionaries?

You expect trans people to accept an inferior status to yourself. Why should they?

So obviously you believe that it is possible to change your sex class. You might also believe that the earth is flat or that the works was created in 7 days. You are entitled to your own religious and philosophical beliefs. However, you can't force your beliefs on others.
You can also give the word woman 2 different definitions. However, a woman with all descriptors except trans is still defined as a female adult person but with trans the definition of woman changes to mean a male adult person, who identifies as a woman. Apples and oranges maybe but where is the change in status and in what way is it inferior?.

Nope. If anything, the only "hierarchy" is just acknowledging that cis people are the dominant majority group.

Also, how do I "not accept the terms for trans people"? I've never denied that trans people are, you know, transgender.

Like I say. A lot of projection.

You don't accept terms for trans people but want to enforce the term cis on to women and men, and then imagine I feel there is some sort of hierarchy there when I don't.

There's no status to it, woman is not a value term it's a name to describe adult human female nothing more. If you wish to add value to the terms woman and transwomen that is for you to work through.

Why should any trans person accept your terms and definitions, when trans women and trans men (two separate words, an adjective and a noun) are already defined as women and men respectively in dictionaries?

You expect trans people to accept an inferior status to yourself. Why should they?

A lot of projection going on there Seldom I respect your religion, but I don't prescribe to it.

Transwomen = Transwomen, they need to be aware they still have male biology.

Transmen = Transmen, they need to be awthey still have female biology.

Women =women, we don't need to define ourselves in relation to others woman is enough.

Men = men, they don't need to define themselves in relation to others, man is enough.

@LoonyLurcher
> Not rtft but if that were true language around men’s health would change too, to reflect not all men having prostates, but it doesn’t.

I think it should change to. Most trans people do.

@Waitwhat23
> “I object to being called cis instead of woman because it reduces women to a sub set of their own sex”

"Subset of their own sex" = complaining about being asked to include others and not centering yourself at all times.

Women are, by definition, a "subset of their own sex". Not all female humans are women. Some female humans are children

> “Calling women cis against their will in order to preclude them from using the word woman”

As opposed to you, again, calling trans women "men" against their will, enforcing a rigid gender binary in doing so.

And you do realize "cis" is a prefix, right? That cis women are still women? And that no one said cis women aren't women?

Transwomen are a subset of men, transmen are a subset of women.

The word woman means adult human female. Chase Strangio is one, as is Freddie McConnell, Buck Angel and the pregnant person in the Calvin Klein ad.

You can identify however you like but you can't change your biology. Periods and endometriosis are things related to female biology.

Not rtft but if that were true language around men’s health would change too, to reflect not all men having prostates, but it doesn’t.
It’s just women’s language, rights and representation that’s being attacked.

And trans women are also women, and by arguing with that, it is ultimately you policing what other people get to call themselves.

See how quickly you dropped the pretense of whether someone feels comfortable with certain terms?

I'm not a non trans woman I am a woman. I don't care how other people call themselves. Transmen can choose to exclude themselves from their femaleness as far as they wish, but they need to know when it comes to their health that can have consequences that they need to take seriously.

Is this meant to be a clever 'gotcha' somehow?

I object to being called cis instead of woman because it reduces women to a sub set of their own sex. If transmen want to be refer to themselves as men or transwomen want to refer to themselves as women, then I don't particularly care unless they want to compell me into believing that they can literally change sex.

Calling women cis against their will in order to preclude them from using the word woman is what I object to. It's like how (recently seen on Twitter) women are told that they chest feed while they are simultanously told that transwomen breastfeed.

It's co-opting and erasing the words that women use to refer to themselves as a sex class while another group use those words.