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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Do pronouns feel alien to anyone else?

466 replies

janeseymour78 · 21/05/2022 18:42

By this, I mean I have friends who are 100% pro pronouns as a show of support and we've had our debates, and then there are others who say it is unhealthy to reinforce stereotypes, eg. By using them on work signatures

For me though, adding she/her pronouns to everything and even having being asked what they are verbally, she/her feels alien to me in a visceral way. I'm curious about this because I have several friends who don't share that feeling at all.

Im GC and I don't believe people are binary. I have elements of feminity and masculinity that whatever else that form who I am. I know I'm a woman, I have endometriosis so I'm painfully aware, as well as all the other reasons women are made aware of their sex.

It comes down to adding 'she/her' to everything would not feel right to me, as though it didn't reflect me. It would like I was falsely reinforcing my womanhood when I don't live my life that way or feel that way. Am I making sense? Do others feel this way?

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SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:42

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2022 19:37

Cool, so what's the big deal? Does "being on small/large gamete producing pathway" need constant emphasizing?

Yes. It means you are a male or a female human. Female humans, aka women and girls, have faced discrimination, prejudice and oppression due to their sexed bodies and the stereotypes and expectations around them. By male humans. Glad you get it, sort of.

Do you think trans women do not face discrimination, prejudice or oppression due to their bodies, or the stereotypes and expectations imposed on them as either "men" or "women" alike?

roarfeckingroarr · 22/05/2022 19:40

@SeldomHere because those with XY chromosomes are, as a sex class, generally larger, stronger, and more likely to commit violent crime.

As an XX, I don't want to be around that when vulnerable/naked/unwell/playing sports

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2022 19:39

And when someone digs our skeleton up in 100,000 years, they will be able to identify which sex we were - male or female.

Yes, with a high degree of accuracy which would be odd if our body types were not connected to being of the female sex.

Zerogravity · 22/05/2022 19:39

Why should whatever is "encoded in our cells" matter in our everyday lives?
The fact that you are even asking this tells me you are either male or a young, impressionable female with little life experience.

SomersetONeil · 22/05/2022 19:39

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:36

Why should whatever is "encoded in our cells" matter in our everyday lives?

If you got periods for 5-6 days every month you probably wouldn’t ask this question … Confused

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:39

EdithStourton · 22/05/2022 19:38

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.
You are aware of genetics? Or perhaps not...

It really does appear to have passed you by entirely.

Which part of genetics are you referring to? Chromosomes?

EdithStourton · 22/05/2022 19:38

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.
You are aware of genetics? Or perhaps not...

It really does appear to have passed you by entirely.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2022 19:38

Why should whatever is "encoded in our cells" matter in our everyday lives?

See my next post, which I was busily typing.

SomersetONeil · 22/05/2022 19:37

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2022 19:34

Sex is not a sum of components. It's not about genitals or hormones. It's about which of the reproductive roles your body developed to fulfil. Whether you advanced down the pathway more to producing ova or sperm, whatever your individual ability to do so. Sex is about gametes and reproductive role, and it's encoded in every cell. Because we are animals in evolutionary terms, whatever card castles of preposterous sophistry we occupy our privileged human selves with.

And when someone digs our skeleton up in 100,000 years, they will be able to identify which sex we were - male or female.

Even if we’ve had a hysterectomy.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2022 19:37

Cool, so what's the big deal? Does "being on small/large gamete producing pathway" need constant emphasizing?

Yes. It means you are a male or a female human. Female humans, aka women and girls, have faced discrimination, prejudice and oppression due to their sexed bodies and the stereotypes and expectations around them. By male humans. Glad you get it, sort of.

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:36

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2022 19:34

Sex is not a sum of components. It's not about genitals or hormones. It's about which of the reproductive roles your body developed to fulfil. Whether you advanced down the pathway more to producing ova or sperm, whatever your individual ability to do so. Sex is about gametes and reproductive role, and it's encoded in every cell. Because we are animals in evolutionary terms, whatever card castles of preposterous sophistry we occupy our privileged human selves with.

Why should whatever is "encoded in our cells" matter in our everyday lives?

SomersetONeil · 22/05/2022 19:35

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:31

Nope, that's not what I said.

What did you say?

Zerogravity · 22/05/2022 19:35

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.
You can change some secondary sexual characteristics. This is not the same as changing sex. If you were born male you will never be female.

divingskies · 22/05/2022 19:34

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex

Okay you are completely and utterly detached from reality.

Ereshkigalangcleg · 22/05/2022 19:34

Sex is not a sum of components. It's not about genitals or hormones. It's about which of the reproductive roles your body developed to fulfil. Whether you advanced down the pathway more to producing ova or sperm, whatever your individual ability to do so. Sex is about gametes and reproductive role, and it's encoded in every cell. Because we are animals in evolutionary terms, whatever card castles of preposterous sophistry we occupy our privileged human selves with.

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:34

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 22/05/2022 19:31

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.

You can't alter the key parts. A man will always only have been on a small gamete producing pathway regardless of whether he gets injected with female hormones, lasers his facial hair, has his penis removed etc.

I know it's not what some people want to hear and I hope they can find peace with being the embodied person that they are but medical advances do not have the ability to put a man on a large gamete producing pathway so they will never change sex.

That can be OK though as it does not speak to their identity.

Cool, so what's the big deal? Does "being on small/large gamete producing pathway" need constant emphasizing?

Sunquench · 22/05/2022 19:34

So if a biological man has cosmetic surgery to impersonate being a woman, does he need to inform future sexual partners (I.e biological men) ?
Surely this raises consent issues. Biological men need to know they’re having sex with a biological man and not a “woman”.

IstayedForTheFeminism · 22/05/2022 19:33

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:30

These still mean that they are women, become female, and/or are female on account of their gender identity.

So if a transwoman is actually a woman and can become female what words are there to describe biological females?
Because if trans women are women and can become female then woman and female are both gender terms.

roarfeckingroarr · 22/05/2022 19:33

Men are XY chromosomes and women are XX. That's it.

divingskies · 22/05/2022 19:32

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:24

@divingskies
> and indeed are the opposite of our position

Like you do when you project nonsense on us like the supposed belief that "feminine men must be women"?

I don't say that.

You have done all the things I outlined though.

Zerogravity · 22/05/2022 19:32

Like you do when you project nonsense on us like the supposed belief that "feminine men must be women"?

What are you talking about?

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 22/05/2022 19:31

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.

You can't alter the key parts. A man will always only have been on a small gamete producing pathway regardless of whether he gets injected with female hormones, lasers his facial hair, has his penis removed etc.

I know it's not what some people want to hear and I hope they can find peace with being the embodied person that they are but medical advances do not have the ability to put a man on a large gamete producing pathway so they will never change sex.

That can be OK though as it does not speak to their identity.

IstayedForTheFeminism · 22/05/2022 19:31

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:28

It does, actually. Sex is a sum of components, and altering the components that make up one's sex, alters one's sex.

Having a hysterectomy changes your sex? I'll tell my mum. Or do I mean my new dad? Not sure how she'll take it, having been a woman for many many years.

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:31

SomersetONeil · 22/05/2022 19:29

So a woman who’s had a hysterectomy is a man?

Nope, that's not what I said.

SeldomHere · 22/05/2022 19:30

IstayedForTheFeminism · 22/05/2022 19:24

All the definitions I found mention "transitioning from male to female" or "a woman who was born male"

So they imply that it's not actually the same as a woman.

Some even said "a male with a female gender identity"

So no.
It doesn't say a transwoman is a woman.

These still mean that they are women, become female, and/or are female on account of their gender identity.