Do pronouns feel alien to anyone else?

Or perhaps you know of a third?

All of those are labels created by humans.

Yes. The female reproductive role is not a label created by humans. It is one of two possible reproductive roles.

No, you are denying the reality of your own experience if you seriously think you cannot tell, by sight, women from men (remember, I am using those terms to refer to sex). I cannot, like most people, do this for many other species as I have no evolutionary need to, as I do not need to identify males from other species to have sex with. It is plainly not arguing with honesty or good faith to pretend that you cannot identify men from women on sight.

You are literally describing the social construct of gender. The labels, categories, words, and social norms that humans construct around sex, are gender

No, I was extremely clearly describing sex. The word woman refers to sex. Adult human female. That is what the word refers to. It refers to sex. I did not anywhere reference the stereotypes that people ascribe to sex. I referred to biological sex, and how we can spot that on sight, why its important for reproduction that we can, and why we created a word for it based on sex.

All of those are labels created by humans. All words are a social construct, not inherent to biology itself.

Still a social construct.

The "material reality" itself doesn't come with any labels. The labels are created by humans. The labels are gender. They are in no way inherent to "material reality", even if you choose to impose them on that basis.

So why should we accept your rigid binary?

Nope, you are deliberately labeling them

She's labelling them as their sex, with all that goes with that. Male people commit 98% of sex crime. Their statistical risk profile is different to women.

A woman is the noun for a human female who has reached adulthood. Like a doe is a female deer, a mare is a female horse.

labels, categories, words, and social norms that humans construct around sex, are gender.

Yes. Note how you used the words "construct around sex". It's based on sex. Sex came first, sex is material reality.

Because, obviously, women are the ones who get pregnant, bear children and the most likely to be raped. So we need to define in law what a woman is. We're also the sex with the historic record of oppression and disadvantage.

If you can't grasp that, you are either stupid or deliberately obtuse, and I can't do a lot to help you.

YY.

@divingskies
> We are evolved with near 100% accuracy to be able to identify woman/ men on sight.

Yeah, right. This delusional "we can always tell" nonsense again. Except the countless cases where you can't.

> The word 'woman' reflects that lived experience of all of us. Its a very useful word: a word for 'adult human female' has probably existed in all human languages for as long as humans had language it is so useful.
So the word 'woman' was forged in the lived experience of all people.

You are literally describing the social construct of gender. The labels, categories, words, and social norms that humans construct around sex, are gender.

Also, lots of societies recognized more gender categories than "man" and "woman".

If feminine names and pronouns are a "stereotype", then using masculine names and pronouns to refer to trans women is imposing masculine stereotypes.

Period.

Nope, you are deliberately labeling them, knowing that doing so projects sex-based stereotypes on them that are associated with "men" (labeling them as such makes it easier for you to smear them as "predatory fetishists" thanks to to those stereotypes), as well as puts pressure on them to confront to the gender norms imposed on "men".

Is this a joke?!

The 'social category and identity' - what is that if not a stereotype? What is the 'identity' of woman without refering to sexist stereotypes?

Or are you saying the 'social category/identity' of woman is nothing more than a female name and pronouns?! That 'woman' is a name and a pronoun?! Because I have no words for how mad that is.

Look ,definitions reflect reality. Woman 'adult human female' reflects a reality we all live. We are evolved with near 100% accuracy to be able to identify woman/ men on sight . Because otherwise we could not so successfully reproduce. The word 'woman' reflects that lived experience of all of us. Its a very useful word: a word for 'adult human female' has probably existed in all human languages for as long as humans had language it is so useful.

So the word 'woman' was forged in the lived experience of all people.

The definition you have come up with, on the other hand, is so obviously made up to fit your gender theories. That's why its so nonsensical.

No. I am merely observing their sex. In any case, this isn't about what I do, it's about you producing this definition of gender identity that is not based on stereotypes- which you have failed to do.

Then in that case, by refusing to refer to trans women by their chosen names or feminine labels, you are enforcing sex-based stereotypes.

Seriously? Associated with feminine names, labels?? That's talking about stereotypes!

Woman – a social category and identity, typically associated with feminine names, labels and pronouns.

Which of these are a "stereotype"?

Very rude aren't you. You seem unable to provide a definition but sure that I have seen one. 😂Enlighten me.

Gender identity ≠ stereotypes.

And you most definitely have seen such a definition, you've just ignored it. One ear in, other ear out.

It's quite something to see the attempted process of evangelisation taking place on this very thread. "I'm not bothered about pushing my pronouns in everyone's face or loudly celebrating my womanhood from the rooftops" >>> ""Ooh, perhaps you are One Of Us... Please peruse my menu of transgender identities... Does this one fit? Here, try this one..."
This is what's happening to kids and teens all over the internet.

You're the only ones who assume it makes any "sex stereotype statement" besides just using those pronouns

There's quite body of research on the assumptions people make based on someone's sex, so it certainly is not just me!

And as I find it hard to see how one's sex and gender can misalign without gender being based on sexist stereotypes, then stating pronouns is buying into an ideology based on sexist stereotypes, yes.

I think it is a massive load of shit and it also feels very, very wrong for me to do it, so I’m simply don’t.

You're the only ones who assume it makes any "sex stereotype statement" besides just using those pronouns.
Well it only makes sense if you believe in the existence of gender identity, doesn't it? And I still haven't seen a definition of gender identity that doesn't rely on sex stereotypes.

There are times sex does matter though, in personnel policies for example relating to pregnancy and maternity rights, any policies relating to menopause etc. Also in cases, say disciplinary matters in sexual harassment, it helps to bring clarity if parties are referred to by their sex (these cases overwhelmingly likely to be male/ female), as well as helping to make clear patterns of sex based harassment.

You're the only ones who assume it makes any "sex stereotype statement" besides just using those pronouns.