A transwoman feeding their new born baby with their own milk..

Thank you @Soubriquet

I've just asked why I was deleted there as I wasn't sure what I had said to warrant being deleted

Terf!

I am not transphobic at all. But to pump youself full of hormones so you can experience something well fuck me im done. Call me a term I'm no longer arsed.

I cant get my head around all this

Just when I think yes I am up to speed on this shit, I get what both sides are arguing against them something else comes up

Is there not one thing that males will want to take away. Ffs.

We are already fucked on the gender pay gap, recommendations for women, toilets ffs and now this?! The one thing we can do without anyone fucking interfering??

You can take our toilets but your not taking my tits. And what they can do. Plazzy or not.

I fucking despair.

For the repeated rhetoric around 'you are transphobic if you think it better to feed an infant the secretion of another female mammal vs a transitioned male's secretion'...

What the fuck do you think is in formula?

What the fuck do you think growing babies then start intaking at relevant ages, either in cooking at around 6 months or to drink around 12 months according to the NHS??

And what do you think mothers used to feed babies before formula was available and they were not wealthy enough to have a 'wet nurse'?

I have no idea why this has been brought up as some kind of 'gotcha' by at least 2 posters.

YES! Feeding your child the milk of another female mammal when it has not been fed other chemicals, or using the formula made using the milk of another female mammal IS preferable to having an infant fed by the secretions of unknown nutritional and chemical composition (drugs crossing into that milk) of males.

Why is this being used as a 'your so transphobic and hateful' tactic?

www.medicalhomeportal.org/issue/formula-ingredients-and-components

www.nhs.uk/conditions/baby/weaning-and-feeding/drinks-and-cups-for-babies-and-young-children/

I went back to check hepatocyte, I have not seen any evidence based points from you. What I did see was:

A whatabout that seemed like it was supposed to be a 'gotcha' about females taking hormones and medications while breastfeeding. You then brought it up as that gotcha by saying this was transphobic:

ignoring the fact that many women take synthetic hormones whilst breastfeeding, and that adoptive mothers have used this protocol previously. As I've said - I would be intersted to know how the levels of synthetic hormones compare, but if that are comparable then we have a lot of safety data.

and

If you know it's common for woman to take synthetic hormones when breastfeeding, don't you think this is the kind of evidence that should be considered when thinking about the safety aspects? Are the hormones & doses comparable? Are risks between woman & transwoman likely to be similar? I just think it's a very relevant point when many posters seem to be claiming this is completely new ground (i.e., babies being exposed to synthethic hormones via breastmilk).

You acknowledge that synthetic hormones and many other substances in the milk produced by lactating females have been well studied, but continue to not bring any evidence relating to the milk of transitioned males to support your continued assertion that we should be using the same studies to deduce what the impact is for lactating males.

You agreeing that it is not essential for the infant. But then in the very next sentence you launch into transphobia and echo chambers.

But the thread is full of transphobia - so many arguments that aren't evidence or science based and a huge amount of derogatory claims. I agree with other posters about it seeming like an echo chamber here and I feel for any transpeople who look at these threads.

I'd like to make a correction here - we are discussing males specifically. Transitioned females who still have breast tissue and have gone through pregnancy to deliver a child should definitely receive extensive support to breastfeed if they wish to. Just like ANY other female.

Then some bad takes of other posts including

-the continued push to try to censure posters for correcting sexing the sex class people who the thread is discussing - male and calling it transphobic.
-Ignoring the continued discussion about the lack of knowledge around the resultant secretions of these males undergoing this process, to bring in a completely ludicrous claim that stating that we would prefer the child be fed milk from another mammal, including cows which most of these infants will receive soon enough anyway, but that cow milk is absolutely known and studied for its suitability for human infant consumption is also transphobic.
-posters refusing to use the term 'milk' for the secretion of unknown chemical make up is also transphobic.

And so on.

Indeed, why is anything that is not in agreement with your views considering derailing? I think this is why the thread gets called an echo chamber.

No. But continuing to call this board an 'echo chamber', using false examples as 'transphobia' and not presenting any evidence to support your claims IS derailing and it seems you have some pretty strong prejudiced views towards posters on this board for your first post on this thread.

Looking forward though to that evidence linked up or some expert rebuttal of links that I and others have posted.

Now, that would result in some interesting discussion and some serious thought provoking posts.

As to what other effects on women, I mentioned upthread about the males who have sought access to the breastfeeding groups. Here is a sample (may have already been posted, if so, I apologise).

grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom?s=r

Here is a trans activist telling women about how breastfeeding anti-discrimination is not a 'sex-based' right.

And here is ACLU back when it did stand up for women's sex based rights.

www.aclu.org/blog/speakeasy/firing-mom-because-shes-breastfeeding-sex-discrimination

www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/#ixzz6f2Pil0Ik

Here is the article I was searching for. I had it slightly wrong. A transitioned male expert was the one who was putting up alerts about this, not the two people who carried out the treatment.

www.newscientist.com/article/2161151-transgender-woman-is-first-to-be-able-to-breastfeed-her-baby/?utm_source=rakuten&utm_medium=affiliate&utm_campaign=2116208:Skimlinks.com&utm_content=10&ranMID=47192&ranEAID=TnL5HPStwNw&ranSiteID=TnL5HPStwNw-uOWyW0a0EHFcOxL5MmCf5Q#ixzz6f2Pil0Ik

However, the woman’s breastmilk has not been assessed yet, so we don’t know if it has the same mix of components as in milk from new gestational mothers. This means the practice cannot yet be recommended, says Madeline Deutsch at the University of California, San Francisco. She says she can see the potential benefits of breastfeeding, but that the long-term impact of this milk on the baby – including on subtle measures like IQ – is unknown.

Deutsch herself is a transgender woman with a six-month-old baby who is currently being breastfed by Deutsch’s wife, who was the gestational mother. “I am very sad not to be able to breastfeed her and at the same time I did not consider doing this for the above reasons,” she says.

This was February 2018. I have not seen anything to prove that any in-depth studies have been released since to counter this expert's opinion. And there has been plenty of other threads since this that where these studies would have been posted by activist posters.

So, there we have it. A transitioned male, Associate Professor, Family Community Medicine, is telling the world that this is not advisable until further research.

Yet, we have posters telling us discussing this is transphobic.

Is Madeline Deutsch, a transitioned male, transphobic too?

We are not even talking about women. A tw feeling aroused at feeding is bloody weird, there's not even any nutritional benefit it's purely for their benefit. Not bothered by whatever buzzwords you throw my way. Next.

@KimikosNightmare

Where's the ignorance? I stand by that, I do not care. Why would you even want to continue if your feeling aroused doing it. You must be someone who experienced it firsthand, One of the 50%.

here you go. Here's your ignorant comment

@holibobs12 "If you have sexual stimulation feeding your baby, it may be time to stop."

Here's only one of many links from similar reasearch to the anecdotes of individual women.

www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3431754/

Maybe someone could find the South American transitioned male model photo with a baby ‘breastfeeding’ that was being fawned over a year or so ago. Where the baby was a prop to the pouting model. I cannot find it anywhere, I assume they removed it because the optics of any male or female using a baby to suckle at their nipple for a photo shoot as a prop should be questioned. For whose benefit was that artistic photo taken?

I suggest anyone interested who has not encountered this before also Google pregnancy fantasies. And pregnancy photoshoots of simulated pregnancies for males.

I think it is far more likely someone transisitions because they are unhappy with their gender, than as a sexual fetish.

You can think what you want. Try doing a search on Twitter for 'ladydick' and it might just change your mind.

It is not exactly a secret is it? I mean, one that gets repeatedly deleted on here because they want it under the radar, Denton style, but you are free to do some research on this, should you wish to.

Try reddit. Or just Google it. Lactation fantasies.

Plus all the times we've heard about transwomen who can menstruate, a long thread on here about prosthetic pregnancy bumps, the transwoman on here talking about uterus implants, and of course, that egregious tw who wanted to simulate a stillbirth.

And I don't think it's necessarily pedophilia.

We see the words 'echo chamber' thrown a lot on this board. This tends to be by posters who lack the evidence to back up claims or the critical thinking to evaluate why the evidence which should back up their argument doesn't exist. A journal article/research paper etc etc which shows the composition of the milk secreted by males who have been induced to produce milk showing that it is comparable to breast milk produced by females should be able to blow many of the arguments against it out of the water surely? If no such research exists, why?

This. Let's have it.

Exactly. Maybe in another scenario you could argue TW are separate to men. Here there is absolutely ZERO difference. We're talkings about male bodies.

Indeed, why is anything that is not in agreement with your views considering derailing? I think this is why the thread gets called an echo chamber.

Because we are now dealing with your declarations of transphobia and not discussing any other points. Or do I have a different interpretation of derailing too?

If someone is a transwoman, it is crap to insist on referring to them as a man.

It's your ideology, not mine. The biological reality trumps personal gender identity for me, every time.

How is contributing evidence based points to the discussion derailing?

You accused other people of derailing. That's not an "evidence based point", it's your opinion.