A transwoman feeding their new born baby with their own milk..

Presumably the female mother who birthed this baby could breast feed it? And isn't it odd how in other situations where male-born people become parents (be they gay male couples or males with female partners), there seems no particular push from those men to lactate to help them bond with their baby.

This. Weird,creepy disgusting. It takes 'performance parenting' to a whole new level

The world has officially gone mad trying to normalise the absurd and make the sane believe they're actually wrong for "normal"thinking. This does not sit comfortably with me on so many levels, soon we will be promoting a choice of gender at puberty and having gender reveal parties depending whether a teen decide to take the path of testosterone or oestrogen hormone treatment.

"I don't know any man who has needed their newborn to suck their nipples to create a bond, or any women who choose not to or couldn't breastfeed for that matter, so that's a bullshit excuse for allowing this to happen."

Well clearly neither men or women need babies to suck their nipples to create a bond. The vast majority of babies in this country are formula fed and bond with their parents. B-feeding helps but is neither a necessary or sufficient condition for bonding. That doesn't mean it isn't worthwhile.

And whilst it may be atypical in this country we know suckling is typical for Aka fathers in Africa for example. And when I had DD1 breastfeeding counsellors were very keen to encourage DH to do both skin-to-skin and use a supplementary nursing system. So when I couldn't feed her bonding was still supported by physical closeness and simulated breastfeeding. And our experiences are clearly very different - the majority of women I know either chose not to breastfeed or found they could not, often due to lack of supply.

I am not allowing this to happen. I am not the breastfeeding police. But I cannot see any self-evident reason why parents who want to explore this should not, if both parents agree, the baby is being adequately fed and they are following medical advice.

I don't know what men are 'meant' to do. You are describing this involvement with feeding as if it is exclusively a female function but my original post was clear in pointing to examples of biological men lactating. I don't know whether they are meant to. I don't know whether I was not meant to. Implicit in your argument is some underlying concept of what is 'natural' or preordered about sex roles in relation to infant feeding. I am questioning whether we know what that is particular in an era when most infant feeding is delivered from adulterated secretions from other species of animals.

Men who are doing it to get their validation and euphoria, not because they want to feed their babies because they can't do that.

This is a real issue but needs to be separated from the idea it is/might be dangerous for the baby (aka how much hormones are they taking vs women, effect of man made hormones vs natural and of course quality of the breast milk )
These are two separate issues and need to be addressed differently. Otherwise you just are the risk of your whole argument against transwomen breastfeeding being dismissed as wrong.

That is absolutely disgusting. What woman would ever feel this way.

Oh. My. Fucking. God. That is disgusting @Rainbowshit 🤬😡🤬

I don't know how medically feasible this is, definitely seems to be on the more experimental side of things, yet it's just being treated as a straightforward medical act.

But then again I've seen a lot of things said about transwomen that just seem to magically happen because they think they're female and body parts just magically work as if they are biologically female.

Bravo. This is what I wanted to write! This is exactly it.

🤮

This will likely be deleted but it you google this person, they wrote an article in the stranger saying that they got off on it. 🤮🤮

Quite frankly it’s an outrage that this is being supported and promoted when natal women (I have no bloody idea what to call a woman born a woman anymore - whatever I say will offend someone) struggle and struggle to get breastfeeding support. This just smacks of me, me, me rather than the needs of the child.

What's the research on feeding babies from other mammals?

I'd be willing to suspect you'd do better feeding a baby from many female mammals over a male human, as at least they're closer to the intended configuration.

Species is surely far less important than sex for baby mammal nutrition?

So, is it widespread? Are there issues?

Women who use a surrogate = women who buy a baby

The difference is that you're female @PenelopePipPip

I find it astounding you can't see that.

THIS.

How anyone could think it’s comparable is beyond me 🤯

Men have to take androgen blockade too, it's in one of the linked studies and known to pass with breast milk.
It doesn't say if it passes in artificial induced lactation, probably because they just don't know.

We can feel differently, but it clearly won't persuade either of us to change our views. That is why I was asking what in particular about this situation upset you that distinguished it from a born-woman breastfeeding?

Can I just say it's a woman, not a born-woman as we are born girls then become women.
Anyway there's a huge difference between a woman who has naturally produced milk during her pregnancy but has to have various medication that may seep through to baby and a man who can not possibly produce breastmilk naturally and who is pumped full of hormones and god knows what other shit. There really is no comparison.

If you object to people feeding chemical laced breast-secretions to babies with some but limited medical guidance that's your call. I don't feel offended but I am definitely one of those people and definitely a woman

You are a woman who gave birth to and nursed your children. It was your choice that, even with medication you felt the benefits outweighed the risks. Many women do and that's fine.

But we are talking about men. Men whose bodies are not meant to gestate or breastfeed. It doesn't matter that they have breast tissue or can produce a liquid from their nipples.
Men who are doing it to get their validation and euphoria, not because they want to feed their babies because they can't do that.

I don't know any man who has needed their newborn to suck their nipples to create a bond, or any women who choose not to or couldn't breastfeed for that matter, so that's a bullshit excuse for allowing this to happen.

Anyone defending men pumped full of hormones indulging their breast feeding fantasy as part of their ongoing mission to force the rest of us to deny the reality of biological sex needs a serious head wobble

I think we need to be very careful about the talk around hormones.
yes transwomen are taking hormones but then women are also ‘full of hormones’ when they are breastfeeding. Actually all women need to right levels of hormones to be able to breastfeed.
Women who use a surrogate have even known to trigger lactation (by using a breast pump a long time before the birth if i remember well) so they can breastfeed too. So manual stimulation can indeed encourage the body to produce milk.
And men have been known to produce milk when taking steroids/testosterone. (It’s down to the fact that testosterone then converts into oestrogen - in men too!!)

The issue I have is that the hormones women produce are NOT the same as the ones found in HRT etc… (see progesterone vs progestin etc…). It’s the same issue than with the oral contraceptive pill and HRT in women.

So my question is much more about the safety of those non natural hormones on the baby. I’m also querying the level of hormones (are they the same, higher, lower??) in transwomen as well the levels of testosterone.
I think those are the two t things that could be an issue.
The other question of course is whether the breast milk produced by transwomen thanks to the hormones they produce is the ‘same’ as women’s. Women’s breastmilk composition varies to adjust to the need of the baby. Is the same thing happening with transwomen??

@HermioneKipper but that isn't an argument. Its just a statement about how you feel.

I feel differently. I valued breastfeeding and can understand why it might be important for adoptive parents, both parents in lesbian relationship and TW to breastfeed too. I hope their babies will also benefit from the experience of closeness and bonding and hopefully additional benefits too.

We can feel differently, but it clearly won't persuade either of us to change our views. That is why I was asking what in particular about this situation upset you that distinguished it from a born-woman breastfeeding? You haven't said, you have just said I should start thinking up excuses.

Why? What am I going to need an excuse for?

If breast feeding is so important for emotional bonding, why are the many many millions of women who struggle with breast feeding not better supported or medicated to do this as opposed to being told to switch to bottles and crack on? Why are women who bottle feed not encouraged to still get their baby to latch on and have a non nutritional suck for the emotional benefits? It's almost as if bottle feeding offers the same benefit (if less sensation to the adult.)

That dog don't hunt, as they say.

This is a man pumping unnecessary drugs into his child. I don't know why you'd risk it, considering that induced lactation in women generally needs supplementation with formula so there's no way a man is feeding a baby entirely that way. It's an incredibly worrying concept.

I hope this picture is purely propaganda. They certainly haven't been taught to hold a baby correctly to breastfeed.

This. The point of breastfeeding is the nutrition and feeding of the child.

Take away the reality of a fantastic biological interaction between mother and child for the protection of them both post pregnancy as well as providing the child with the best nutrition, and it becomes just using a child and a lot of medication for an adult to have their desired emotional experience. Ethical issues. Not least: is the adult involved really prioritising the child's best interests over their own.