A transwoman feeding their new born baby with their own milk..

My son has an allergy that came out in my milk. Before I discovered it, my son became so uncomfortable that he refused to feed and my supply dropped massively. There I was on a restricted diet, trying to keep a food diary, looking after an older child, stressed out, with low breast milk supply. I went to the GP, who was monitoring my son's weight; she was fab, but said she would not prescribe me domperidone because it is potentially associated with heart problems. She admitted to being cautious, but said she just wanted to ensure that my son wasn't exposed to something that isn't absolutely clearly ok. I was fine with this - once she explained, I agreed with her and I struggled on, using fenugreek, dairy free flapjacks etc, you name it and eventually moved on to prescription milk when I just couldn't cope any more.

I assume the same drug is being used for this transwoman, probably in greater quantities with a cocktail of others. Not in the best interests of baby.

I am a doctor and an academic but I cannot find any literature about the nutritional content of the secretions that these individuals are giving to their babies. Newborn babies use so much of their limited energy sucking. If it becomes known that there is not adequate nutrition in male breast secretions and people persist with doing this despite knowing that the baby is not getting anything of nutritional value in return then would that not be considered child abuse?

Female breast milk (which comes from fully formed breast tissue and developed breast lobules for milk production) changes so much over the course of each feed and also in the first weeks. The first few days is rich, golden yellow colostrum followed by (in my experience) watery milk and it takes weeks to establish a steady supply which becomes more creamy. Breast milk changes over the course of one feed alone and as others pointed out, it is dyadic and the contents also change based on baby’s needs and current health. What has happened to scientific understanding in the country that male breastfeeding is being condoned and there is no evidence of what is in these galactorrhea secretions?

It affects the baby's bodily autonomy, @Marty13. Does that matter to you at all?

My male partner had this as a baby. One side of his chest was producing milk. Long time ago & he's scant on details but said he had an operation to cut out the milk glands. Also my dd1 had breastmilk as a baby. I think the midwife said it was due to her getting my hormones. It went away fairly quickly.

I'm really sorry to read you are still poorly Penelope.

I'm not sure this is the thread to distract yourself on?

I'm sorry to hear you had cancer. That must have been an awful time.

but the concern you raise doesn't arise from a bio man/TW do something that typically bio women do.

I go back to my (and other pp) original points; a woman doesn't have the other hormones a male would, especially a male on cross sex hormones which can often include puberty blockers etc.

So yes, it does.

Tullip is a recently detransitioned male who describes just how many drugs, including testosterone blockers, he needed to gain "breasts" and even then he felt they were never more than moobs.

Not sure why you are working so hard to side step the other issues though?

There are wider comments I could make that would actually work for the tra side in this; I cba, but none of that trumps the central issues around WHY there's a need to do this.

@Marty13 What about the baby in question? Are they not entitled to a safe, nourishing, healthy feeding experience or are they only a prop whose actual needs are irrelevant in conjunction with that of their 'non birthing parent'? Do you know what happens if everyone 'gets another hobby' and 'has a life of their own' when it comes to safeguarding helpless children and infants?

@Clymene So you know zilch about it but every single one of your posts have been about it. Very curious.

OK so everything I know I learnt about reading stuff online today. Then I made a typo.

Sometimes a typo is just a typo.

I am really not sure what you are trying to insinuate. I'm just a very ill woman at the moment and having a recreational debate has been a good way to distract myself from pain.

This is horrific. That baby is having untold amounts of chemicals and hormones put into its virgin gut. I honestly think this is the most disturbing post I’ve ever seen in mumsnet. I can only hope that this is fake or that there is nothing really being secreted there. That poor poor child, utterly used and abused from its first hour.

At some point you'd think people would accept their biological limitations, but it just doesn't seem to be the case here. Not sure why the person in question couldn't have just used a bottle to feed the baby.

I wish I thought that was the only endgame, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g. This is SO sinister I cannot understand how any mum wouldn't have a visceral reaction. Utter revulsion.

"A male or even female partner who is unaware of the valuable role a partner can play in holding, cuddling, burping, slinging, taking baby for walks and naps so that mum can physically recover and rest is displaying a narcissistic approach to their relationship and being a parent.
I would be concerned about the relationship as a whole."

But male partners in most relationships can and do play a valuable role in feeding since most babies are either partly or wholly bottle fed. If the parents want to exclusively breastfeed and both parents want to try to participate in this this does not by itself indicate narcissism but shared parenting. Obviously if one parent was saying the other could not or must not exclusively breastfeed that would be different - but we don't know if that has happened here.

I was recovering from leukemia when I had DD1. I absolutely know DH would have breastfed her if he had been able to. he did pretty much everything but.

I share your concern about abusive relationships and agree this is worrying - but the concern you raise doesn't arise from a bio man/TW do something that typically bio women do. It arises from a concern about certain relationship dynamics. And maybe those do arise more frequently in relationships between TW and bio-women. The only same-sex relationships involving TW I know seem very very different to that.

And @Artichokeleaves "There's always someone who'll turn up and argue," yup that's cos its called a discussion board.

The lactophilia reddit has 87,000 members.

There was a programme on Channel 4 recently on it. It's a fairly mainstream thing now.

No one with healthy boundaries would allow a newborn to be fed in this way.

https://grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/the-queering-of-motherhood?utmcampaign=post&utmm_source=

A TW has admitted the got off on feeding their child, Marty. You clearly have no hobbies either if you're here replying to threads you're not even interested in on a Saturday night @Marty13.

As with many of these things it is ALL about the person in questions's wants and desires - not the baby in this case. There are some selfish entitled sick fucks in this world.

Yes you did. So you know zilch about it but every single one of your posts have been about it. Very curious.

Ah.

Mothers, your interest in children's wellbeing is silly and irrational. Stop concerning yourself with questioning the interests and freedoms of male people even when they are questionable due to involving a child, and get a hobby. Child protection is none of your business.

Said no one trained in safeguarding ever.

@Clymene why odd? Did I make a mistake? I admit I know zilch about induced lactation and obviously never did it myself.

A safeguarding training I was in once listed "preventing a mother from breastfeeding" under 'sexual abuse.'

There's always someone who'll turn up and argue, endlessly, in long and complicated posts, to support this kind of stuff. And say things like 'you'll have to try harder than that to justify having your sex based rights' to women.

Not engaging. This is about using a child to provide a wanted emotional experience for a male solely because they have a chosen gender identity and see this act as a female thing that they are entitled to. It's not being offered to fathers and all other males raising children, it's not even offered as standard to women struggling to breastfeed naturally. And it places the best interests of the child way below the interests of the adult. Children are not props to meet the needs of their parents.

Boundaries. Healthy people have them.

@RinklyRomaine 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼

We know men often become abusive during pregnancy and breastfeeding when mum is most vulnerable. We know controlling, narcy men often try to control breastfeeding as a form of abuse. We absolutely know by their own admission that many men interested in cross gender identity have pregnancy, menstruation and lactation fetishes. That's not controversial, they are all over the place talking about it. He says himself he got a kick from it. Why is any sane woman (or man) defending this?

Absolutely 👏

Or you also could respect other people's bodily autonomy and leave them alone, this affects you in no way shape or form. Or do you just have no life of your own ? Dear god, find a hobby.

Odd that someone who is such a passionate advocate for induced lactation can't even get the name of the protocol right ...

Squiff70 it's easier if you've had a child and bf already as the first 6 weeks of feeding physically changes the cells in the breast.

But you're right there's no point comparing apples and nuts.