A transwoman feeding their new born baby with their own milk..

How is contributing evidence based points to the discussion derailing?

sorry? Did I miss the evidence and the links? I will go back and check.

Where are these narratives from @Datun ?

IMO, most people are average, and these goes for transwoman too.

I think it is far more likely someone transisitions because they are unhappy with their gender, than as a sexual fetish. I also think it is far more likely a transwoman would want to breastfeed as this is something that is often part of being a woman & mother, rather than because they are a pedophile.

If you were happy to share the narratives/data you have read then that would be really helpful - as many posters come on here and say - I am open to having my mind changed. I do not have evidence that suggests this currently, but if you do then please share!

This was my post.

yes. I read it. You brought up issues already discussed on the thread about the difficulties in breastfeeding. You posed a question which I answered.

You then went on to discuss the transphobia on the thread. After other posters had posted similar accusations of transphobia and echo chambers.

Perhaps you were not aware of the specific discussion guidelines here on this particular board. Transphobia is quickly deleted. So do report anything you find transphobic.

🤣😄🤣

What a load of tosh.
Men in that tribe do not feed the babies, they let them suckle not feed, nothing actually comes out. It's just a convenient dummy.

First result on a Google search -

my.clevelandclinic.org/health/articles/8330-breast-anatomy#:~:text=Males%20have%20breasts%2C%20too.,ducts%20and%20no%20glandular%20tissue.

Conclusion? No. They don't have the same mammary glands as women.

That is hilarious. So we are told hardly any transitioned males would do this, but at the same time we cannot take an anecdotal post about a male wishing to do this if it was an option.

Either way, please explain what the difference is? Why is this to be a transitioned male issue and not a male sex class issue? Why should one subgroup be able to do this?

Ascribing this narrative to all transwoman, such as a the person in this thread, is what is transphobic. This includes linking quotes to her which are from some other person.

That might have been me. I was indeed mixing up two different people.

However, after the last time this was discussed on here, I read so many narratives from transwomen saying they were trying to lactate because it was turning them on, that is indeed the motivation I would describe to a male individual doing this. You've only got to read what they actually say, along with the people who encourage them, to see that the babies' health is nowhere.

Do people really not know that there are numerous websites devoted to males trying to lactate. They are perfectly upfront about their motivation. It's not exactly a secret.

This was my post.

All of it ignored, little excerpts taken out and twisted into things I've never said.

It's bizzare.

Yes. We know about the tribe. I also believe I have seen anthropologists saying that those males are not lactating but suckling the child for comfort.

Happy to read your evidence to the contrary though.

@Helleofabore

How is contributing evidence based points to the discussion derailing?

Indeed, why is anything that is not in agreement with your views considering derailing? I think this is why the thread gets called an echo chamber.

Good so we agree that whether we are discussing transwomen or men the glaring issues are the same as they are both biologically male.

Over on Twitter people saying what you've just said about that stranger article are being described as transphobic.

I don't think this is the board for me when you repeatedly misinterpret what I say to try and cause an argument and derail.

No one but you and a few other posters are attempting to derail this thread.

Have I misinterpreted your posts about how transphobic this thread is and by extension the posters on it who are rejecting this medical intervention?

Sigh.

I agree transwoman are biologically male.

Again (for the third time now?), there seems to be a real agenda to ascribe quotes to me that I've never said to derail things.

Men have always been able to breastfeed. They have the same mammary glands as women.

If the gland is repeatedly stimulated then it will eventually lactate. In the Aka tribe in the Congo men will feed babies.

The trans issue is a side one on this thread (except in so far as it reveals the huge stigma still around).

Don't you think it's a little ridiculous to insist that because one poster causally mentioned their husband would do this (not that they've tried, are seriously considering it etc) it is now a mans issue and not a transwomans?

Do you seriously think they'll be an appetite for men (not transwoman) to start taking female hormones so they can breastfeed? As I said, if that changes then yes of course it would become a issue around men and not just transwoman.
But right now it isn't and it seems like just another way to insist that transwoman must be referred to as men.

You want to call it milk. Under what circumstances would the substance we are discussing be called ‘milk’? Because it seems to be a substance discharged from a nipple? Or shall we focus on the nutritional value because we are discussing feeding infants?

Until you reach the stage of acknowledging the fact that transwomen are still (and always will be) biologically male, there is no point in discussing the ridiculous notion of Males successfully breastfeeding.

I agree. Imagine putting your own wants and needs above your child's basic needs.

Women choose not to breastfeed if they are taking certain medication or are going to have alcohol because they don't want to pass it in the breast milk to their baby.

I just can't imagine choosing this option that's been promoted over bottle feeding when you know it's absolutely safe. It's just plain and simple selfishness.

If you want to and can breast feed naturally great, if you choose not to or can't then you choose formula as we know it's safe.

I cannot get my head around it.

Please report any posts referring to transitioned males as ‘men.’

As I mentioned, a poster told us how how husband would have done this, so the thread has now moved on to all males.

This thread!

Why the continued insistence on trying to claim I said things I most certainly did not?

No I didn't say "it is just like mother's milk", yes I already said in my post I'm not pro because of the many unknowns, including the composition.

Why pull me up on this specifically, when I didn't say it, and ignore all other points in most?

If someone is a transwoman, it is crap to insist on referring to them as a man.

When people make remarks like this, I often wonder how they think a well-formed shared decision-making healthcare discussion would proceed on that basis.

The conversation in this thread is about men even if the OP is about a TW. Inducing this phenomenon in men would substantially influence the clinical discussion about forms of support for lactation (pharmaceutical, non-pharmaceutical etc.).

I've no idea who is advocating for the wellbeing of the notional infant at the heart of this discussion. I would echo PPs in waiting for a bibliography of well designed trials, systematic reviews, and nutritive and immunological analyses of the fluid that centre the needs of the infant rather than the men.

claiming it would be better for babies to breastfeed from a female mammal (!) instead of a transwoman.

Too right I would prefer my DC to have milk from another female mammal rather than a TW. Cows/goats/sheep, hell a bear would be preferable to some shite coming out of a male body that is chemically created/manipulated.

That doesn't make me transphobic as I'm sure a lot of TW would agree it can't be healthy for the baby.

I don't have a problem with TW, live and let live etc but I do have a problem with (I'm guessing) a very small minority forcing a baby to suckle from whatever it is coming out of their breasts.

I'm also very concerned by that TW posted above who said they got off on the baby sucking the nipple, that is pure child abuse and it is disgusting. I appreciate that's probably not the majority view from TW (at least I hope not) but as usual the outspoken minority ruin it for the rest.

Eh? I don't think this is the board for me when you repeatedly misinterpret what I say to try and cause an argument and derail.

You're conflating two things to try and make me sound unhinged.

-Clearly, if someone is saying they transistioned, had a baby, and are now breastfeeding to get sexual pleasure, that is incredibly disturbing. I don't disagree and I don't think any other sane person would either. It's also obviously not transphobic to speak out against something that is clearly a child protection issues.

-Ascribing this narrative to all transwoman, such as a the person in this thread, is what is transphobic. This includes linking quotes to her which are from some other person.

Why can't you see the difference?

refusing to say milk and instead using emotive terms "drug induced secretions", "chemical laden discharge", etc. Biologically, it is milk.

please provide the evidence of the compound analysis of the substance along with the effects on the child.

You are perfectly welcome to call it milk, but I do not need to call it milk until I am assured that the chemicals and the hormones that cross over are of nutritional value to any infant.

Just because you choose to call it milk, and to say it is just like a mother’s milk for her infant, doesn’t make it so.