Active discussions

Please or to access all these features

Talk
Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Feminism: chat

Original poster

First trans peer a step closer as hereditary candidate claims seat

109 replies

ChristinaXYZ · 20/05/2022 22:31

Interesting article in the Telegraph

www.telegraph.co.uk/politics/2022/05/20/first-trans-peer-step-closer-hereditary-candidate-claims-seat/

"Matilda Simon will contest the next by-election for one of the upper chamber’s 92 hereditary seats...

"...The House of Lords could shortly welcome its first trans peer and only female hereditary member.

Matilda Simon was this week given permission to contest the next by-election for one of the upper chamber’s remaining 92 hereditary seats.

If she wins, she will doubtless become the envy of peers’ daughters across the country, because the vast majority of titles may only be passed to a male heir.

However, because of a legal loophole, the candidate, born Matthew Simon in 1955, has inherited and retains the Barony of Wythenshawe, despite being in all other legal respects a woman...

"...Lady Simon winning a future by-election - which will take place upon the death or retirement of a hereditary member - would be likely to reignite the debate over the persistence of primogeniture among the aristocracy.

In 2013, in the aftermath of the marriage of the Duke and Duchess of Cambridge, Parliament passed a law to allow a first born child to inherit the throne, but this principle only applies to the Royal Family, not the peerage.

In recent years, Lord Balfour spoke of his anger that his Earldom would pass to his younger brother upon his death, rather than any of his daughters.
Indeed, he joked that a cunning ruse to ensure one of them succeeds would be if they transitioned to become a man.
However, according to a source close to the current process, that would not work, as the case of Lady Simon proves....

"...And in what the source close to the process described as an “irony”, she [Matilda Simon] has a sister born two years earlier.

“If the title had been inheritable by a woman, it would have gone to Margaret, the older sister, rather than the younger sister,” he said..."

Read the full article on the Telegraph website.

OP posts:
RoobarbandCustud · 21/05/2022 11:07

Tbh it's disgraceful and perverse that peerage was left out of the GRA and don't expect any trans people would disagree. There should be no primogeniture anyway. The TW in question is acting within the law by retaining the title, but could the TW have renounced it like Tony Benn did? If he has chosen not to renounce that makes a mockery of a mockery.

YetAnotherSpartacus · 21/05/2022 10:12

Speechless.

Lovelyricepudding · 21/05/2022 10:05

This just capsules TRA in a nutshell - it is about more privileges for men and nothing more.

mrshoho · 21/05/2022 10:02

I do hope lil oj takes up this very worthy issue with his brethren. This poor transwoman who has to recognise her sex as male to inherit a title.

Theeyeballsinthefuckingsky · 21/05/2022 09:53

Frankly I cannot wait to see how the TRA justify this breathtaking level of hypocrisy

Mandodari · 21/05/2022 09:51

QuitMitheringMe · 20/05/2022 22:50

The GRA has a specific exemption for peerages

Cannot fund any suitable words for this.

Hypocrisy springs to mind.

zanahoria · 21/05/2022 09:47

"So many things to be cross about I don’t know where to start."

My thoughts too but I reckon this is a spectacular own goal as it exposes quite a few of them

Mandodari · 21/05/2022 09:42

aweegc · 20/05/2022 22:42

The House of Lords could shortly welcome its first trans peer and only female hereditary member.

Except it won't be the first female hereditary member as there is no such thing. The very fact that you have to be male to have a hereditary title proves this.

I'm rather fascinated that Matilda Simon hasn't renounced her title given that she is a woman and it's the height of womanhood to not inherit a title.

Christ no, that's the joy of being a trans woman isn't it? Get lauded for being so brave whilst knowing full well none of the shit that comes along with being an actual female will ever disturb your life.

WeeBisom · 21/05/2022 09:28

If you read the Hansard debates about the gender recognition act , the issue about peerages gets a LOT of attention. They were exceptionally concerned that women would identify as men to steal their brothers title. Of course they were extra careful to make an exception where sex matters to them.

It does lead to an odd state of affairs though. We’ve heard in the Alison Bailey case that calling transwomen male is apparently bigoted and nasty. Except in this case it seems ?

ifs also wonderful that this person doesn’t suffer from crippling dysphoria by being called male and from being in a position that no woman could find herself in.

ResisterRex · 21/05/2022 08:43

Or...it could go the other way as regards reform.

PermanentTemporary · 21/05/2022 08:41

Unfortunately this undoubtedly ridiculous situation will be a good reason for some to press for reform of the GRA again because the idea that sex is a fixed characteristic is old-fashioned and sexist, rather than indicating that the idea you can change sex is intrinsically wrong.

ResisterRex · 21/05/2022 08:11

I like to imagine of this particular piece of law as a gift to us from the past, from a low-key troublemaker. Someone maybe tasked with the unenviable task of going to the Palace and saying:

"So, Queen. This GRA. Basically if Charles has a sex change then he will be Queen"

And the Queen saying nothing but the courtiers seething in the background.

Then there comes a lawyerly letter which is oh-so-polite but oh-so-WTAF-are-you-even thinking from The Firm. In essence it says:

"Go ahead if you want but sex can never change and this will be a legal fiction of which we will have no part".

Lowly troublemaker read the letter, and smiles to him/herself, doffs cap and fudges law as directed. Gets a some shit from Lammysaurus but puts up with it, sighing inwardly. Sits and waits, knowing this will blow up some day and s/he can say, "well, told you so"

And that's how we got the GRA.

The end.

napody · 21/05/2022 08:00

Sex is a social construct but barony is innate.

Cherry pricking.

Genius!

whataloadabullocks · 21/05/2022 07:52

Anyone would think there was a deeper motive here; by masquerading identifying as a female, if the Barroness doesn't get elected they can play the trans-discrimination card. Quite clever when you think about it. Although if anyone actually had the balls to object it would be easier enough to say 'no, you are now female and we don't allow women" but absolutely none of the male aristocratic have the bollocks to address this....cowards the lot of them.

Noisyprat · 21/05/2022 07:48

Lord Balfour raised this back in 2017:

https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-42182747.amp

This really needs to be addressed. Patriarchy at its finest.

PermanentTemporary · 21/05/2022 07:42

Sex is a social construct but barony is innate

Assigned Baron at Birth

Marvellous stuff. Thanks David Lammy for this fine gift as part of the GRA you shepherded through parliament. Thought we were the dinosaurs.

Rodedooda · 21/05/2022 07:35

How I would love for the older sis to go nuclear on the publicity front.

inevitable this would happen at some point.

Still a man's man's world.

I can't read the whole thread as it's making my blood boil but I remember there was something a wee while back about a woman trying to challenge this

www.theatlantic.com/international/archive/2020/11/feminist-aristocrats-who-want-daughters-rights/617067/

ResisterRex · 21/05/2022 07:32

This can't be right because your sex changes over time, and it's a male only right. I'm sure one of the many, many lobby groups will be along shortly to correct the Establishment about this.

guinnessguzzler · 21/05/2022 07:29

I have to admit I don't really understand the whole by-election process in this context either, even having looked it up. Does it mean you have to actively put yourself forward? But there is a limited pool of people (all men) who are eligible (perhaps a pool of one?)? Surely this is quite a significant case in terms of whether trans women should legally be treated in line with men or women? Or will it just mean more cherry pricking as intimated above?

Peregrina · 21/05/2022 07:18

Tony Benn fought for the right to renounce a hereditary title something like 60 years ago, so what is stopping him who wants to be called her? Surely there is a male relative available? The Lords might duck the issue by electing someone else.

VintageGibbon · 21/05/2022 06:58

"she will be the envy of peers' daughters" because she has accepted and exercised her male entitlement due to being born male and thereby retaining rights given to her exclusively because of her maleness?

K. Nothing new there except a pronoun shift.

She could renounce them due to her newfound lowly female status and join the sisterhood. Tough decision.

Abhannmor · 21/05/2022 06:39

Male privilege writ large. Baroness Hunt will tell us how brave and stunning it is.

donquixotedelamancha · 21/05/2022 06:11

Odd that Matilda should want to claim this title as it stresses that they are male . If Matilda feels that they are a woman why would they be pursuing a title to which a biological woman would not be entitled?

For a certain type of male, claiming to be trans, money, attention and power seem to alleviate their gender dysphoria even better than actually living as a woman.

mrshoho · 21/05/2022 06:10

He's not a female then is he? It's both laughable and deeply annoying at the same time. Interesting that it's only in certain circumstances where being recognised as a male could cause trauma.

DaisiesandButtercups · 21/05/2022 06:08

So the older sister is supposed to be the more “privileged” is that right? Because those identifying under the trans umbrella are the most marginalised group in society? 🤔