Times: Girl ‘driven out of school for questioning trans ideology’

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It sickens me that this girl has been turned into a tog o' war prize. TRAs try to discredit every story that shows their movement in a bad light of course, but why has Jones specifically chosen this one to amplify?

Seems like he's got a bite, anyway.

twitter.com/GspLuna/status/1526632005370249221?s=19

The TRA discredit machine is in full flow:

The article has been deleted
The article has been changed to say that it was JKR who made the claims
The Times never spoke to the victim

A reader's comment in UnHerd under an article 'How to stop children being indoctrinated' by Andrew Doyle:

"It is extraordinary how people will go with the flow. Some years ago a teacher friend of mine, a woman of strong character and a Tory who had stood as a Tory local government candidate, told me, ‘We all teach them this sub-Marxist stuff. I do it myself.’

(I can't read the article as I am over my permitted limit of free reading for the month but I can see the comments, which are often worth a whirl.)

Same old strategy, claim it didn't happen, let those false claims spread and the seed of doubt is sown. Months later admit that it did happen, but there's no media coverage.

Another strategy appears that the denials force the accusers to come out, lose their anonymity and allows for activists to destroy their lives, their family lives and anyone else associated with them.

Would that be like the fantasy that there wasn't a man in the women's and girls section of the Wi Spa with his penis out I wonder.

I read his Facebook page earlier and that absolutely wasn't there.

In his rabid hatred for women, he failed to realise how dreadful the optics were.

LOJ edited his facebook post to belatedly add something about safeguarding

Liar.
The edit history shows the 'original shout out' on FB was only amended to include a note about under 18s/parental consent an hour ago

twitter.com/Ayrshirelass13/status/1526904641698635776?t=lKibRaxOxxv-7c1tyNiSSw&s=19

The story is clearly on the website as I write this and very prominent with over 2.5k comments.
Isn't it fascinating how often there is complete denial about the regular abuse of women and girls from so many self interested individuals determined to sanitise appalling behaviour /incidents? no it's not fascinating, it's predictable and depressing

*lApparently the evidence for it being made up is the Times has taken the story down (is that even true?)

No. Presumably it was temporarily taken down to add the JK Rowling bit and then put back up.

I'm not sure that there isn't a link in some countries with this and the changes to marriage laws.

In some places those changes happened as a kind of policy initiative, but in others it was a court decision based on rights claims. And in places like the US and Canada, the courts can almost act as legislators in a way that isn't quite the same in the UK.

The difference being, if you decide to legislate for sex not to be relevent in marriage laws, that's a pretty straigtforward and limited idea, sex doesn't matter in lots of legal institutions. But if your courts determine that it's not legitimate to have biological sex impact on a legal institution, that is rather different, because it potentially suggests that biological sex is not a legitimate category under the law at all.

Now would that ever happen, I don't know, but I think it has certainly shaped the way some people, including people in Parliment and the American Congress, think about it.

So, the story is a 'fantasy'.... according to a transitioned male barrister.

Right ... I won't go anywhere near that!

www.gov.uk/government/publications/prevent-duty-guidance/revised-prevent-duty-guidance-for-england-and-wales

‘7. The Government has defined extremism in the Prevent strategy as: “vocal or active opposition to fundamental British values, including democracy, the rule of law, individual liberty and mutual respect and tolerance of different faiths and beliefs…

1. The Prevent strategy was explicitly changed in 2011 to deal with all forms of terrorism and with non-violent extremism, which can create an atmosphere conducive to terrorism and can popularise views which terrorists then exploit. It also made clear that preventing people becoming terrorists or supporting terrorism requires challenge to extremist ideas where they are used to legitimise terrorism and are shared by terrorist groups….’

I’d say threatening to bomb and burn down women’s rights meetings, and all the online doxxing and rape threats and threats made to women’s families etc are domestic terrorism.
So PREVENT does seems applicable for schools to think about here, given that there is a small TRA cohort who behave like this. Link is to the England and Wales guidance, but Scotland has something similar in place, I believe.

And Joanna Williams in Spiked knows who the Baroness is:

I wonder how she knows this. She got one important detail wrong - she starts by saying that the incident happened a few weeks ago, but later that the girl left in December.

Robin White, the barrister who often pops in here, has just declared on Twitter that the story is a “fantasy”

You'd think Robin might be busy today?

I thought PREVENT only applied to Islamic terrorism.

Not at all. It is for identifying children at risk from being groomed in to any kind of extremism. The training I had on it had a case study on far-right extremism.

Well, this story, which is basically an update, is still on the front page of the Times app:

JK Rowling defends girl ‘driven out of school for questioning trans ideology’

www.thetimes.co.uk/article/50aac934-d539-11ec-8585-951ab3afb4d2?shareToken=a8f50462637da166881b96c37d103146

Schools have a responsibility not to platform extremist politics- that’s partly why the government started the PREVENT programme isn’t it? Which is not optional. Are those requirements not applicable to private schools?

All safeguarding rules apply to private schools just as much as state schools. Bullying is a safeguarding issue and the school in question appear to have failed quite spectacularly here.

The views espoused by a member of the HoL probably wouldn't be classed as extremist politics though - baronesses are part of our government. When dealing with political matters schools do have a duty to present both sides of an argument though.

It is probably worth bearing in mind that (most) teachers won't pay much attention to what is taught in PSHE or by guest speakers. It just isn't a priority - even getting teachers to take the statutory elements seriously is quite difficult tbh. Until JKR put her head above the parapet I didn't know many teachers who were even aware of the trans / women's rights debate. Those who are now aware mostly (and naively) assume stonewall = good guys who are probably right.

Personally, I have had to challenge three separate incidents of trans-related misinformation since Christmas. One was quite significant because students were given incorrect "facts" and nobody else noticed.

Great to see that our warrior women are supporting this intelligent and questioning young woman. Hats off to Julie Bindel and JK Rowling.

And Joanna Williams in Spiked knows who the Baroness is:

"It’s worth noting that the school concerned is a Stonewall ‘diversity champion’ and the baroness, who came to talk to students during one of their PSHE classes, is a well-known LGBTQ speaker and activist. Her views on transgender issues would have echoed positions already familiar to the girls – if they hadn’t picked them up from wider culture, then they will have heard them from the likes of trans charity Mermaids, which was invited to address the school last year. The students – 17- and 18-year-olds – were not coming at the issue fresh, then. They have had years of training in ‘correct’ thinking. They were fully primed to agree with everything the baroness said. What their expensive education had seemingly not prepared them for was disagreement with this view. As a teacher at the school describes it, students assumed that the girl who dared to raise questions ‘was thoroughly deserving of the roasting that she had just received’."

www.spiked-online.com/2022/05/17/trans-dogma-has-taken-over-our-schools/

Was child C the black girl who was strip searched - I did think of her when I read about this case in relation to the school's complete lack of safeguarding.

I also agree that bullying can get out of hand very quickly in schools. Teachers don't lack training on this, they just lack time and motivation to deal in many cases (and then weep and wail when a child commits suicide).

I thought PREVENT only applied to Islamic terrorism. Although this is another form of terrorism.

What actual legal rights did this speaker Baroness from the House of Lords say were lacking for trans people? Wouldn’t that need to be evidenced to avoid the appearance of politically lobbying children?

What this usually boils down to, if you press them, is something like "the right to be recognised by the state as the sex they want to be recognised as, without interference".

It's basically a demand for Self ID.

With a sort of nonsensical claim that non-trans people get to be recognised as the sex that they want to be recognised as. (Rather than them just being recognised as the sex that they are).

I mean, it's not totally incoherent - you can take this universalist approach and argue that a particular group is inconvenienced. Eg everyone had the right to marry someone of the opposite sex, but that inconvenienced homosexuals. So the universal right was extended to being able to marry someone regardless of sex. (Whether you're gay or straight).

And what's being demanded here is a new universal right where anyone gets to "declare their sex" freely. But that's a very different sort of demand, because what it actually means in practice is the erasure of sex from public policy, and replacing structures designed to handle sex with something nonsensical - eg sport categorised by "gender".

Allowing people to marry people of the same sex causes no radical changes to provision for other groups, but self ID does.

Also as much as this story is appalling and important and should be covered anonymously, I can’t imagine the stress of national media coverage on top of the girl’s previous victimisation at school, for the girl and her family just as she’s sitting her A levels.
I wish them all very well

What actual legal rights did this speaker Baroness from the House of Lords say were lacking for trans people? Wouldn’t that need to be evidenced to avoid the appearance of politically lobbying children?

Schools have a responsibility not to platform extremist politics- that’s partly why the government started the PREVENT programme isn’t it? Which is not optional. Are those requirements not applicable to private schools?

Julie Bindel has tweeted that she is in touch with the young woman concerned, so Robin is behind the times.

Ah, but Julie Bindel is a known liar, just like Baroness Nicholson, not a paragon of truth like Robin.