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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Matt Walsh 'What is a Women?' trailer released

137 replies

MalagaNights · 14/05/2022 16:16

Matt Walsh, the right wing Catholic who is against abortion and yoga (I'm just getting in all the reasons to not 'align' with him in advance, if that's your thing) has released the trailer for his documentary.

It looks hilarious and amazing;

twitter.com/MattWalshBlog/status/1525477731181502464?t=zwaCB9yE6f6R48Q46arIeA&s=19

OP posts:
whiskyjarsafilling · 15/05/2022 18:57

Moppincraxy · 15/05/2022 17:06

"Shared gender identity of "woman".

That's it.

A common link usually also involves feminine names (like "Sarah"), labels (like "actress"), and pronouns (like "she"), but the more we get to specifics, the less universal these things they are."

My name means "dove". I have two eyes, two legs, can tweet, sing and hop. I have been referred to as a "bird". I have been chased and bitten by a cat. I have quite a few common links with birds. Am I a bird?

Doesn't your last bit about birds rather demonstrate the point that to be a bird one has to have the biology of a bird. It the biology that makes the bird, not people performing aspects associated with birdness? Or even an inner sense the bird has that it is a bird. If it had scales and four legs, would it be a bird?

Similarly one can choose to adopt characteristics society may associate with ' 'womaness' but that does not make one a woman. The only thing that makes one a woman is female biology.

Gender identity is something that was invented to get around the inconvenient fact that woman means, and has meant in probably all languages, in all human history, adult human female. This means that people who are male, did not fit into this category. Therefore, to allow them entry to 'womaness' the definition of women needed to be changed. And hence the unevidenced, unscientific, undefined notion of ' gender identity' was born. Gender identity was not discovered, it was created to solve an ideological incoherence.

Gender identity doesn't mean anything, of course. And, importantly, it doesn't explain why women have been so disadvantaged and discriminated against throughout history, in the way that the definition of woman based in our female bodies does. That is because of our reproductive function, the fact that straight men want to have sex with women, the fact our bodies are smaller and weaker than men's so men are able to abuse and attack us. So removing the reality of our sexed bodies from the word woman, no longer gives us the means to understand the foundation of the oppression and harm that has been done and is being done to us- and without a proper fact based analysis of our oppression, and without a word to describe ourselves that reflects the bodies that our oppression is rooted in, we are handicapped in being able to name, describe and fight our oppression.

But don't let that bother you.

TastefulRainbowUnicorn · 15/05/2022 18:55

So there are really two groups of people opposing gender ideology

I think more accurately it’s one group, albeit with a variety of underlying motivations, that believes in genderism. And everyone else in the world who doesn’t. I’m not “aligned” with anyone else on the basis of a religion we both don’t believe.

RoyalCorgi · 15/05/2022 18:47

That's quite a lot of exceptions there. What stops one from also throwing in "wasn't assigned a different gender at birth"?

Because people aren't assigned a gender at birth. You know that perfectly well. I refuse to believe that there is a single person on this planet who doesn't know that. Sex is observed at birth, and indeed sometimes before birth.

If you're going to quibble about definitions, then try this one: women belong to the class of humans who produce eggs. Men belong to the class of humans who produce sperm.

Humans can't change sex.

Men can't give birth.

Repeat ad nauseam.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 15/05/2022 18:46

That's quite a lot of exceptions there. What stops one from also throwing in "wasn't assigned a different gender at birth"?

bloody loads

a 13 year old comes to you and says they've just started bleeding from their genitals

do you hand them a sanitary towel or take them to hospital?

congratulations, you've just identified whether or not they have that kind of body, without having to worry about any of those exceptions

how the heck do you think babies are made @SeldomHere ?

Are these needs universally shared by all non-trans women? If not, I see no reason to exclude trans women from the definition.

what, understanding that you'll menstruate for 35 years? yeah, I'd say that need is shared by all women and zero men

Plenty non-trans women don't have those needs, but the word "woman" still includes them, so why shouldn't it also include trans women?

plenty of women don't need to understand menstruation? you are coming from a very, very odd position

WarriorNewAgain · 15/05/2022 18:46

Marci bowers keeps saying it's a tiny bit social contagion.

Every person who has desisted or detransitioned and written about it names the internet as being the primary driver.... Hmm

SeldomHere · 15/05/2022 18:41

@BernardBlackMissesLangCleg
> if healthy, working correctly and in the right age group

That's quite a lot of exceptions there. What stops one from also throwing in "wasn't assigned a different gender at birth"?

> do you accept that having that kind of body gives those people unique needs?

Are these needs universally shared by all non-trans women? If not, I see no reason to exclude trans women from the definition.

> do you think they should have a word for themselves so they can organise to ensure those needs are met?

Plenty non-trans women don't have those needs, but the word "woman" still includes them, so why shouldn't it also include trans women?

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 15/05/2022 17:58

No universal shared characteristics, because there are many different kinds of women, and there are many different ways to be a woman.

right you are @SeldomHere

what's your word for the type of people born with the type of body that if healthy, working correctly and in the right age group can gestate live young?

do you accept that having that kind of body gives those people unique needs?

do you think they should have a word for themselves so they can organise to ensure those needs are met?

IcakethereforeIam · 15/05/2022 17:19

@Moppincraxy have you ever got into hot water or a lather. Sit down, you might be a bar of soap!

MagnoliaTaint · 15/05/2022 17:11

Shared gender identity of "woman".

That's it.

But ... that doesn't even mean anything. It's like I say 'everyone has a feeling about how tall they are, called an 'inner highness' and I'm a dwarf because even though I'm 6'2" I feel really quite short'.

A common link usually also involves feminine names (like "Sarah"), labels (like "actress"), and pronouns (like "she"), but the more we get to specifics, the less universal these things they are.

Well, cripes. Have you any idea how offensive that is? 'actress' has been rejected by women actors for the past ten, fifteen odd years because women are treated as lesser beings because of their sexed labels. Now people are trying to claim some kind of integral part of being a woman is using demeaning and outdated and sexist terms?

Because there's more than one way to be a woman, and women, both cis and trans, are all different.

No shit! We're all completely different people, and males are not females, and never will be. On that point we can agree. But please don't 'cis' me, thank you.

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2022 17:10

You're conflating sex and gender. Who said anything about sperm.

Was it not someone up thread that said 'sex can be altered'...hang on...oh yeah that was you.

So are you talking about sex, or gender?

Are you talking about sex being altered or someone changing into some casual or less casual clothing?

As i said, you've been duped.

Moppincraxy · 15/05/2022 17:06

"Shared gender identity of "woman".

That's it.

A common link usually also involves feminine names (like "Sarah"), labels (like "actress"), and pronouns (like "she"), but the more we get to specifics, the less universal these things they are."

My name means "dove". I have two eyes, two legs, can tweet, sing and hop. I have been referred to as a "bird". I have been chased and bitten by a cat. I have quite a few common links with birds. Am I a bird?

SeldomHere · 15/05/2022 17:04

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2022 16:39

A common link usually also involves feminine names (like "Sarah"), labels (like "actress"), and pronouns (like "she"), but the more we get to specifics, the less universal these things they are.

So following your line of thinking - in the UK and France I am a woman, but as I have a name that is known as male in Spain, when I go there [which as it happens I can drive there in a couple of hours, as I live in the South of France] I become a man?

And thus will start to produce sperm? Or a moustache? Or what, what happens once I'm over the border?

You're conflating sex and gender. Who said anything about sperm.

You remain a womsn, because you continue to identify that way.

And yeah, names being differently gendered in different countries just further shows how much of it is merely a social construct.

SeldomHere · 15/05/2022 17:02

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 15/05/2022 16:58

I keep checking back to the thread as I had high hopes of finally finding out what the shared characteristics of people with the gender identity 'woman' are, but @SeldomHere seems to have reverted to being seldom here

Sad

Already told you. No universal shared characteristics, because there are many different kinds of women, and there are many different ways to be a woman.

BernardBlackMissesLangCleg · 15/05/2022 16:58

I keep checking back to the thread as I had high hopes of finally finding out what the shared characteristics of people with the gender identity 'woman' are, but @SeldomHere seems to have reverted to being seldom here

Sad
IcakethereforeIam · 15/05/2022 16:51

I think I'm a man in Israel.

SierraSapphire · 15/05/2022 16:46

Yoga is the "woo" though, it's in the west it's been appropriated to be about physical practice, it's origin in the east makes asana (physical positions) only one of eight limbs, with the purpose basically being to condition the body to live a better life. The eight limbs are here if anyone is interested in knowing more about them https://blog.yogamatters.com/eight-limbs-of-yoga-patanjalis-pathway-to-bliss

I'm looking forward to the film, and this whole thing, and Brexit, has made me way less judgemental about people's different views and situations in recent years and much more willing to engage in discussion rather than assuming I am right.

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2022 16:43

user1471504747 · 15/05/2022 16:37

Anyone who thinks this man is pro women is either deliberately lying to themselves or genuinely delusional.

He supports some genuinely harmful ideas, and him agreeing with me on one issue, and even at that agreeing with me for a completely different reason, does not make me feel able to support him.

Things like this, that watch brand (egard maybe?), cheering on boris Johnson and Tucker Carlson just do more harm than good for the cause. Who and what are you really supporting when you look past the surface level talk and sound bites.

See I think 'harmful ideas' are 'wanting kids to be sterilised and have their breasts removed' is quite harmful on the old harmful scale. But hey ho.

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 15/05/2022 16:40

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2022 16:39

A common link usually also involves feminine names (like "Sarah"), labels (like "actress"), and pronouns (like "she"), but the more we get to specifics, the less universal these things they are.

So following your line of thinking - in the UK and France I am a woman, but as I have a name that is known as male in Spain, when I go there [which as it happens I can drive there in a couple of hours, as I live in the South of France] I become a man?

And thus will start to produce sperm? Or a moustache? Or what, what happens once I'm over the border?

That would make me male in all Francophone countries 😀

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 15/05/2022 16:40

Maybe read what has actually been written. You'll notice that everyone is aware of his other stuff. That's what we are all talking about.

AlisonDonut · 15/05/2022 16:39

A common link usually also involves feminine names (like "Sarah"), labels (like "actress"), and pronouns (like "she"), but the more we get to specifics, the less universal these things they are.

So following your line of thinking - in the UK and France I am a woman, but as I have a name that is known as male in Spain, when I go there [which as it happens I can drive there in a couple of hours, as I live in the South of France] I become a man?

And thus will start to produce sperm? Or a moustache? Or what, what happens once I'm over the border?

user1471504747 · 15/05/2022 16:37

Anyone who thinks this man is pro women is either deliberately lying to themselves or genuinely delusional.

He supports some genuinely harmful ideas, and him agreeing with me on one issue, and even at that agreeing with me for a completely different reason, does not make me feel able to support him.

Things like this, that watch brand (egard maybe?), cheering on boris Johnson and Tucker Carlson just do more harm than good for the cause. Who and what are you really supporting when you look past the surface level talk and sound bites.

IcakethereforeIam · 15/05/2022 16:36

@MalagaNights I don't dislike people being silly, in fact I'm all for it.Smile

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 15/05/2022 16:32

Sex can be altered though, hormones are one of the components of sex, and hormonal composition can be changed, as can the characteristics affected by hormones.

No. That's just cobblers. You could say the same about cyanide and the ability of the body to process oxygen.

At best you are trying to describe the most ephemeral of sex based physiological characteristics. Like breast tissue. Being very overweight will also cause some men to grow breast tissue, doesn't change their sex.

But mostly you are trying to get people to believe that changes to the external appearance are the same as transubstantiation of the actual substance if a body.

Which is twaddle.

Droptear · 15/05/2022 16:32

SamphirethePogoingStickerist · 15/05/2022 14:29

Ah well! Happy to have amused you!

Thank you for the fantastic content 😃

ValancyRedfern · 15/05/2022 16:31

So gender identity of 'woman' is identifying with something that is completely undefinable because all women are different. Clear as mud.

I'll stick with adult human female regardless of identity thanks.