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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Peter Tatchell gets it handed to him

78 replies

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 08:08

Did anyone see his GB News slot and then tweet where he explains that there are ‘two different kinds of woman’?

Apparently there is a woman as defined by biology and there is a woman as defined by gender identity. Both are equally valid.

Nearly every comment and quote tweet is a variation of no, had enough of this now, total nonsense, why is anyone listening to this guy?

I think we’re moving away from all of this.

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FrancescaContini · 15/05/2022 22:26

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 08:24

The fact he talked his shite on GB News doesn’t make what he said any less nonsensical, does it?

Exactly.

DdraigGoch · 15/05/2022 22:23

thirdfiddle · 14/05/2022 17:44

I am pro people I disagree with being allowed to talk in public. Whether that's right wingers or Peter Tatchell. The more they talk the more people realise how extreme and worrying their views are.

Indeed. The BNP were gaining in popularity in the late 2000s, so the BBC invited Nick Griffin onto Question Time. The BBC were roasted for giving him a platform but the end result was that everyone saw him and his party for what they were. Their support collapsed rapidly.

Cailleach1 · 15/05/2022 13:41

@ResisterRex

Good that Malcolm C is honestly sharing that there are people who think that PT came, and comes, with questionable warblings on paedophilia/child abuse. Based on having read and heard PT's own words.

I know that PT now doth protest that he, in fact, finds paedophila/child abuse hard to condone. He has issued a statement to this effect. However, oddly enough, some people might still not be reassured by this new statement. Maybe because of his former statements where he alleged that most of the people he knows who were abused as children said they were not harmed by it at all. Indeed PT said friends abused as minors allegedly reported to him that they found it 'enjoyable'. I don't think he has retracted all that stuff. Or the 'questions' about it. Maybe PT was only trying to open a debate. Maybe child abuse/paedophilia could be debated and the views of all sides shared! Maybe on 'Any Questions'. Bring the 'sides' together for a respectful televised discussion. Let those who want decriminalisation for paedophilia/child sex abuse be open about what they want. Sunlight on something which you can stand behind is good, right?

I won't post those statements by PT here. I could, if Mumsnet finds the simple reference as too speculative without a link to the printed statements as supporting evidence. It is not speculation that certain views/'questions' on child abuse/paedophilia were expressed by PT.

ChristinaXYZ · 15/05/2022 12:49

PonyPatter44 · 14/05/2022 08:13

But its GB News, hardly a sensible or credible source. They let FARAGE talk, ffs!

The free speech channel and the only one that actively shines a light on gender issues.

MagpiePi · 15/05/2022 09:05

ExMachinaDeus · 15/05/2022 03:55

Do you even have a trauma informed background or someone available to buy me an ice cream and run me a nice bath?

Would these help Flowers @Deliriumoftheendless

@ExMachinaDeus and @Deliriumoftheendless

Do you realise the trauma and literal harm that the thought of ice cream causes people identifying as lactose intolerant? And what about people who once got in a bath that was a bit cold? How are they dealing with their trauma now? And the harm you have caused with a picture of a bunch of flowers for people who identify as suffering from hayfever?

You are probably too old to understand....

tabbycatstripy · 15/05/2022 09:01

We will.

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youvegottenminuteslynn · 15/05/2022 08:59

God the entitled arrogance of his "Unite!" command. Us women will do what we individually want thanks, without an abuse apologist shouting commands at us.

tabbycatstripy · 15/05/2022 08:51

More shark-jumping (in reply to Tatchell) from a certain MN lurker whose surname rhymes with boats:

”I’m a cis woman because my gender identity is woman, not because of my 'biological sex'.”

Right... so now “cis” is because your gender identity is woman and nothing to do with biology at all... But surely by this rationale every woman is cis? And therefore there is no such thing as trans?

The rationale for the word ‘cis’ was that some people (they said) have a gender identity that aligns with their biological sex and some don’t, hence the need to distinguish between ‘types’ of woman (cis and trans). But if we are now dispensing with the concept of biological sex as being related to which women are cis and which are trans, and putting ‘biological sex’ in inverted commas, which women are cis?

What even is a woman?

😂

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ResisterRex · 15/05/2022 06:49

Malcolm Clark's take:

mobile.twitter.com/TwisterFilm/status/1525084288219226114?cxt=HHwWhICxvY6FmKoqAAAA

ExMachinaDeus · 15/05/2022 03:55

Do you even have a trauma informed background or someone available to buy me an ice cream and run me a nice bath?

Would these help Flowers @Deliriumoftheendless

SammyScrounge · 15/05/2022 01:38

DdraigGoch · 14/05/2022 08:27

There are two kinds of horse. One you ride at Ascot, and one you dry clothes on. Both are equally valid, but you're going to look bloody silly mounting a clothes horse.

Love this. Wittiest post of the week .
😄😄😄

1Week · 15/05/2022 01:32

Yes, I agree with that. There's a very narrow band of acceptable opinion in the respectable society and media. You can see it going back to Gordon Brown's 'some old bigot' comment.

But it's true that every new thing, every change has a benefit to someone and a cost to someone else.

It's one thing to argue that the thing you're worried about won't be that bad, for x y z reasons, or maybe it will be quite bad, but will be worth it in the end, and here's why.

It's another to belittle and dismiss your worries and experiences and put a label on you for even daring to vocalise.

People are not going to give up their self preservation instinct because some OJ type says he's very disappointed in their poor morality. On the contrary, it drives people to extremes, and fractures society even more.

Things feel very Victorian again, with the respectable middle classes despairing against the deplorable morality of the lower orders.

Even linguistically- For example, my gran used to hint darkly that some middle aged woman had problems up the frock. Nowadays it's the same sort of strictures - you can say cunt and pussy as much as you like but Woman needs an asterisk, or hedging, or throat clearing to see if anyone with delicate sensibilities nearby might be shocked.

Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g · 14/05/2022 18:53

Floisme · 14/05/2022 09:38

Just a thought but maybe if the self-styled progressive media had not only 'let Farage talk' but debated with him in good faith, then maybe more people would have seen his 'I'm just an ordinary bloke' act for what it is, and maybe we would still be in Europe and just maybe the red wall would still be standing.

Hear, hear.

Mandodari · 14/05/2022 18:44

Apparently there is a woman as defined by biology and there is a woman as defined by gender identity. Both are equally valid.

I bow to Mr Tatchells superior knowledge of women. At least it gets him off the topic of having sex with kids and why that isn't always a crime.

Mandodari · 14/05/2022 18:16

DdraigGoch · 14/05/2022 08:27

There are two kinds of horse. One you ride at Ascot, and one you dry clothes on. Both are equally valid, but you're going to look bloody silly mounting a clothes horse.

😂😂😂

SpindleWick · 14/05/2022 18:12

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 17:22

‘It's also an attempt to make a private contract with sexism and misogyny when those private contracts will not be honoured the minute it becomes clear that you are of the female sex.’

Well put.

Absolutely.

Melroses · 14/05/2022 18:09

Is Tatchell right wing or left wing?🤔

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 17:59

I don’t particularly care about Tatchell wanging on about types of women, but it does startle me that people are prepared to platform someone with his record of comments about kids.

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thirdfiddle · 14/05/2022 17:44

I am pro people I disagree with being allowed to talk in public. Whether that's right wingers or Peter Tatchell. The more they talk the more people realise how extreme and worrying their views are.

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 17:22

‘It's also an attempt to make a private contract with sexism and misogyny when those private contracts will not be honoured the minute it becomes clear that you are of the female sex.’

Well put.

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tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 17:21

‘Do you even have a trauma informed background or someone available to buy me an ice cream and run me a nice bath?’

I’m afraid not!

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Deliriumoftheendless · 14/05/2022 17:03

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 11:12

‘It's ridiculous to side swipe at people for being right wing. Half the people in any country are, at least on some topics.’

It’s true. Ask most people the following questions and it’s clear:

  1. Should people work for a living if they can?
  2. Should we legalise drugs?
  3. Should there be unlimited migration to the UK?
  4. How many sexes are there and can people change sex?
  5. Should we raise taxes to equalise society?

I think it’s very triggering of you to ask that first question, as I- a person who is able to work but would rather win the lottery and sit around all day listening to podcasts- happened by and saw it, doing harm to me in the process. Do you even have a trauma informed background or someone available to buy me an ice cream and run me a nice bath?

nepeta · 14/05/2022 16:57

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 14:55

‘The ultra-modern concept of 'gender' being the packaging up of feelings into a 'personal gender' is very new and very privileged, in terms of the people espousing it having the agency to do so. Without that agency they couldn't have positioned the new vocabulary so prominently. Gender is no longer imposed from the outside or kinship networks; it is created by the individual and imposed on others.’

Also very interesting, except that (of course) it isn’t. Transmen are still the subjects of misogyny. They are ostracised even from the discourse surrounding transgenderism, and by exactly the same misogyny that made them run to escape the prison of gender. To me, a young ‘transman’ looks (most of the time) just like a really unhappy young woman.

It's also an attempt to make a private contract with sexism and misogyny when those private contracts will not be honoured the minute it becomes clear that you are of the female sex. Even trans men who pass and so reap the usual male goodies will face discrimination when it comes to reproductive health, and becoming nonbinary will not help at all.

But not having a name for the female sex will certainly make feminism rubbish. How do we fight for 'our' rights when that 'our' cannot be described in any way that is not dehumanising, objectifying and erasing?

tabbycatstripy · 14/05/2022 14:55

‘The ultra-modern concept of 'gender' being the packaging up of feelings into a 'personal gender' is very new and very privileged, in terms of the people espousing it having the agency to do so. Without that agency they couldn't have positioned the new vocabulary so prominently. Gender is no longer imposed from the outside or kinship networks; it is created by the individual and imposed on others.’

Also very interesting, except that (of course) it isn’t. Transmen are still the subjects of misogyny. They are ostracised even from the discourse surrounding transgenderism, and by exactly the same misogyny that made them run to escape the prison of gender. To me, a young ‘transman’ looks (most of the time) just like a really unhappy young woman.

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DialSquare · 14/05/2022 14:47

I liked this response.

There is Spartacus, and then those who say ‘I am Spartacus.’

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