'GC is a slur"

@SeldomHere Being gender critical and believing in biological reality is not the same as: "But you don't want trans people to exist. Expecting a trans woman to live as a "man" is expecting her to not be trans. Wanting everyone to not be trans is wanting trans people to not exist."

Transwomen are welcome to dress and behave as they want, providing that they respect women's legally protected sex-based rights, such as the right to single-sex services and facilities and to safety and fairness in sport, etc. Because funnily enough, women have a right to exist, too!

Whatever.

It's funny how you use "blokes in frocks" as a pejorative, but you totally have no issue with feminine "males", you totally don't weaponize the stigma towards gender non-conformity against trans people, no siree. 🙄

GC works for me. And if it is a slur any replacement will quickly become one, too. I don't see the point in changing names now and losing the recognition/understanding of GC just as it is finally getting out to the wider world.

Though I do like the suggestion of "biological realist" as suggested by nocoolnamesleft above.

Take your glitterspecs off, read my longer post. I've answered your question. Night night.. That's the only repetition I'm doing.

Dodging the question.

Well said.

Even if I believe that

@IcakethereforeIam
> But here goes, no one has to forcefully categorise anyone as anything. Mother nature did that, usually pretty clearly.

The point is, even if you believe that, why would those categories needs social or legal enforcement? Why would those need to be persistently named?

I don't know what I can write without bringing down the wrath of MN. But here goes, no one has to forcefully categorise anyone as anything. Mother nature did that, usually pretty clearly.

however, if anyone, male or female, wishes to dress or behave in a fashion that does not conform to sex stéréotypes, no reasonable person should have a problem with that. Except in areas where single sex spaces or services are important, then things have to be more nuanced. This can mean that people are excluded on the grounds of their actual sex.

Correct me if I'm wrong then. Do you believe trans women should be free to live in society as women, or forcefully categorized as men?

But you don't want trans people to exist. Expecting a trans woman to live as a "man" is expecting her to not be trans

dont be ‘youing’ me

youve no idea what my views are on this subject

Both have non-standard identities different from the ones imposed on them based on their sex, and both want these identities to be respected, and to be addressed the way they feel comfortable with.

I don't see any conflict here.

@RufustheFloralmissingreindeer
> now some people use it as short hand for ‘obviously hates transpeople and does not want them to exist’

But you don't want trans people to exist. Expecting a trans woman to live as a "man" is expecting her to not be trans.

Wanting everyone to not be trans is wanting trans people to not exist.

Surely you know by now that nothing but complete capitulation is acceptable to these people. If another name started being used, that would just become 'sullied' as well. I don't give a shit about being called 'transphobic' or 'GC' or even TERF now - everyone outside of twitter sees the batshittery anyway.

Anything can be used as a slur, its how its used and how its intended. TRA has been used as a slur, the other T word as a slur. 'Socialist' and 'Conservative '. Seen many use those same descriptors with pride. Its pretty obvious when someone is using a word in a derogatory manner, and there are few words so way out that there isn't a setting they can realistically be used in a non derogatory way. Gender critical feminist is an accurate descriptor of a feminist who doesn't believe or is skeptical of the idea of gender. There will always be people who object to that viewpoint whatever name you give it.

This adult male's attitude would concern me more than the views of an impressionable adolescent.

@Fairislefandango I'm at the sharp end of this with a teenage daughter, and I think that for the girls in particular it offers an apparent way out of the patriarchy.

Puberty is even more brutal for girls than it used to be. You get told all the way through primary school that you can do anything you want, and then suddenly at 12 or 13 it's made very clear that your only worth is your value - or not - in the eyes of the boys, and that they are interested in looks, tits and not much more. Being non-binary is quite a good opt-out of the system and I kind of respect that.

Although in my day you only had to be a goth...

Because surely being non-binary, not wanting to fit in with one gender or another is a) the complete opposite of big chunks of trans ideology, which requires secure and stereotypical genders in order to work, and b) is being bloody gender critical.

Theoretically, I guess. But in practice, from what I can gather, non-binary mostly just means 'I'm far too special and unique to just be a man, or a woman. Please let me under the trans umbrella!'.

Yes your posts are fine!

What I don't understand is how the non-binary and the trans people end up allied.

Because surely being non-binary, not wanting to fit in with one gender or another is a) the complete opposite of big chunks of trans ideology, which requires secure and stereotypical genders in order to work, and b) is being bloody gender critical.

So you could try frying her brain with that. I've pointed out to my nb DD that I am effectively non-binary and skirt hating and have been all my life but also gender critical and that these two things are linked.

They don't see the horrors of Karen, trying to explain her friends might be rapists doesn't sink in, she has known them for years

Sorry, what were you trying to explain? Because if it's what I read there, what you're explaining is not GC, and it is transphobic!

any male has the potential to be a rapist, that's one of the reasons for sex segregated areas, the reason you teach your children to be respectful of others (so they don't become rapists) and to do their best to keep themselves safe (to minimise the risk of being raped). The GC position is that it doesn't matter what the male believes themself to be, the risk factor derives from their sex.

@SaraNera

You could ask her to read this, if she has any Muslim friends she could see it from their viewpoint? From a stance of there being conflicting rights.

shonaghdillon.co.uk/muslim-women-focus-group/

@Abhannmor I noticed when I used the return key the carriage return (my god, that dates me) was inserted after the cursor. So had to arrow right.

But only sometimes, is working as it should in this post. Are you seeing paragraphs in my posts?