Why do people dislike Germaine Greer?

None of this really is a response to what I said, you've just picked out random sentences.

It’s very interesting the way we’ll trawl through a person’s complete history to find something to invalidate the rest of their prolific work with. ‘GG said this thing about rape therefore….’

Many of us don't do this and we don't need to do this. We were following GG before being GC was a thing, have no need to idolise her or demonise her and are possessed with enough critical faculties to have made our own minds up about some or all she has said. You know - like it used to be.

Though I agree it is healthier to frame it as "his fault, he was rude" not "my fault, I invited it". Which is how women tend to frame rape.

I had a male friend who was raped - but weirdly to me, he totally didn't realize it, dismissed it even when I suggested it to him. He saw it as a rude sexual encounter.

Why is that weird? Very many women feel that way too, at least at first. And yes it's protective in the short term. But the longer term effects can be insidious.

He was protected by the way it was framed in his mind.

Men have protective ways to frame rape that women don't usually have, like identifying themselves with the aggressor "I could easily do that too". This is a kind of "rudeness" that women don't get to do.

It’s very interesting the way we’ll trawl through a person’s complete history to find something to invalidate the rest of their prolific work with. ‘GG said this thing about rape therefore….’

I think we all benefit from women who are not scared to say what they think. To name the emperor with no clothes. In fact women that do have this, what seems like a, superpower will by definition say things I disagree with. The only way to never say anything offensive or cancellable is to say nothing.

I was a bit surprised in the clip above that she says she’ll use chosen pronouns, basically to be kind. I wouldn’t have expected that from her and I could be disappointed, but you know what? She wouldn’t give a shit that that would disappoint me. So therein, again, lies what I love about her. And what we all benefit from about women like her. Even those above who are naive enough to think feminism doesn’t matter to them. If that’s truly the case, it can only be due to the benefits you’re reaping of those that have gone before you. But don’t blink for too long, as you might miss those blithely assumed rights when they’re gone.

@MangyInseam that’s a really thoughtful way of putting it and has given me a lot to ponder.

I think she was really thinking more along the lines that women do not experience rape outside of a social context, even as individuals our experience of assault and rape is mediated through what we've learned about it.

I had a male friend who was raped - but weirdly to me, he totally didn't realize it, dismissed it even when I suggested it to him. He saw it as a rude sexual encounter. One of the things that really struck me was that he was pretty much completely unaffacted by the kind of sense of sexual violation that is common even when an assault isn't particularly violent. He was protected by the way it was framed in his mind.

That's not some total answer to reducing the trauma of rape obviously, but it's worth thinking about the possibility that the social mesage that rape is somthing inevitably damaging to your sense of personhood in itself increases the experience of violation when it happens.

Which is not different really than the way other kinds of social messaging about fragility can affect people in other contexts.

You know lots of them totally disagree with each other, right?

And, it is possible for feminists to just be jerks, totally apart from their political opinions.

I wonder about this. I am not sure that it's a male female thing. The person I knew most like her in terms of abrasive no-nonsense brilliance was a man, and while some people thought he was the cat's meow, and he accomplished a lot, many people hated him, or found him hurtful. He was probably the only real person I ever knew who if the police asked after he had been murdered, did he have enemies, I'd have said yes.

Maybe we do expect women to be somewhat softer than men but very abrasive people like that don't get a free pass just because they are men.

My mother (who is about the same age) found her infuriating and my childhood was full of fairly biting comments whenever she popped up. I’m pretty sure she understood her and the culture of the time.

'Reading the Female Eunuch in 1971 was like opening a door for my younger self, and she was GC and firmly centring women in that debate very early on.
I am so glad she is around to say it, piss us off, make us think, make us laugh, whatever. Long may she continue.'

Yes me too. Hear hear.

@Terfeywithallthetrimmings writes

"Your "friend" is a collaborator who goes along with making men feel good about themselves at the expense of women's rights, dignity and safety. Germaine Greer is a resistance fighter who has principles she will stand by in spite of the personal unpopularity that is the result. Your friend feels uncomfortable because GG shows her up for what she is..

Truly brilliant!

Those who dislike Germane Greer have never read a word she wrote or, if they have read, they have failed to understand in full the context in which she writes.

Really? ???

Excellent post @Terfeywithallthetrimmings

Your "friend" is a collaborator who goes along with making men feel good about themselves at the expense of women's rights, dignity and safety. Germaine Greer is a resistance fighter who has principles she will stand by in spite of the personal unpopularity that is the result. Your friend feels uncomfortable because GG shows her up for what she is..

Those who dislike Germane Greer have never read a word she wrote or, if they have read, they have failed to understand in full the context in which she writes.

This is also true for other prominent feminists.

I always understood the paedo book to be a reflection of the gazillions of females who are looked at and photographed in the same way, and the fact that you are still talking about it years later does kind of prove her point.

I've said before it was a great pity Mary Whitehouse was the person speaking out against porn.

Whitehouse wasn't "the person" she was just the non-feminist person. Andrea Dworkin's feminist book on porn came out in 1981. And Dworkin really pulled no punches and was widely hated for it.

Brilliant!👏And I admire them both.

Germaine Greer is a mouthy woman who won't defer to men or to any political dogma. She won't pretend lies are true. She stands up for herself. What a disgrace! She should be shunned by all handmaids.

She is 83 and has been writing and speaking intelligent feminist stuff for all of my feminist years , I'm 68, .......but bleat bleat bleat - she said x about y boo hoo boo hoo/ what about all the other 60 years of her work would you like to comment about that??
If you have a spare month or two.....

as others have said, the stupid comments about rape and the ridiculous paedo photo book just about cover it.

she's of course by no means all bad, it's sadly (unoriginal observation ahoy) far from uncommon that true brilliance (which she undoubtedly has or had in spades) comes hand in hand with bouts of extreme unpleasantness, see Morrissey etc.

@AlisonDonut yes I think the same. There often seems to be little context applied. It’s extraordinary to see how far we have come even in the last fifty years. It’s also terrifying to see how fast we are sliding back. There is so much talk of diversity and inclusion but very little tolerance for any differences in thought or experience. It is possible to agree with some of what someone thinks while finding other parts unacceptable.

I find this sort of discussion be like 'Oh I'm really glad we have that track across the island, but the people that literally cut through the jungle with knives went the wrong way and missed that short cut through the brook, and they used the wrong kind of knife'.

Especially when you benefit from the communities and facilities that they built for you.

I was at one of her talks a few years ago where she was talking about women's invisibility as they age. She said that whenever she used the word "old" in relation to herself, somebody would immediately say "Oh, you're not old!" With a tone of horror, as if old is the worst thing a woman could be. "I'm nearly fucking 80, when am I going to be allowed to be old?" She was right about that - I have a similar thing when I factually describe myself as fat (which as we all know, is the ACTUAL worst thing a woman can be).