I’ve joined Stonewall’s last (?) stronghold. 😫

I am rather glad to be in a blue collar job. A handful of people in head office (comms-type roles) go for the pronoun thing, but if anyone even considered foisting it upon the lower orders, they'd be told to f* off.

Whenever I hear whinging about government cuts, I'm minded to point to the amount of money this drivel has cost the Treasury and add up just what the money could have been spent on instead.

I'm wondering if you were a trustee for my organisation - same issue with our EDI trustee.

Security - absolutely no hope of Stonewall getting in here, if you avoid the biggest companies.

It's all I can do, most days, to keep most of the staff away from blatant homophobia and racism - there's absolutely no chance they're going to start pronouning anytime soon.

I never, ever thought I'd be grateful for the lack of tolerance, but here we are.

Unfortunately you keeping your mouth shut isnt going to change anything. So you need to speak up - every time the Equalities Act is ignored or misquoted you need to comment, following up with an email. I would really recommend references to legal cases and corporate liability. I normally find that EDI training is driven by certain factors - so keep broadening the discussion.

I used to be a Trustee for a well run charity. Our Trustee with specific responsibility for EDI was from a non-white background. He was male - any thing he brought to the Board was always about Ethnicity. He couldn't understand that there were 8 more protected characteristics and EDI can be even broader. He didnt like me lobbing comments in at the Board meeting - but all Trustees had responsibility. So let everyone know that they will be on the hook. That sharpens the mind!

The organisation that took us over in January are a stonewall diversity champion, have just been awarded ‘ a great place to work’(TM) and have, just this week, invited us all for some inclusivity training.

There’s about 8 sessions, including pronouns and psychological safety, so it’s going to all be about trans. I’m going to attend, keep my mouth shut and take notes.

This is an organisation that is trying really hard to attract more women. I don’t think they’ve thought it through.

Thank you and I hope it works too!

I know as a junior HR person I read Personnel Today for guidance and interesting cases to learn from and have complained to them about some of their articles citing Maya Forstater and pitching her views against employment lawyers (completely unfair in my opinion even though she's fab).

I'm still a consultant so know the danger and risks of being known publicly for my views but I'm also experienced enough to know we have to work together as a profession.

That’s the spirit @LoonyQuine I knew someone would be thinking of it!

I’m not in HR but have experience enough to know that HR need to understand and work within employment law, not Stonewall law.

It’s about time that HR had its own GC grassroots group. It’s really important, I hope your plan works!

There are a few people in this thread working in HR and I do too. I really want to get a grassroots HR group together but I know it's not easy being openly GC and keep a good career in HR. I'm happy to do this with people staying anon - maybe a Twitter DM group is a good way to start? Anyone up for joining me?

and to the OP - I'm really sorry you are going through this in what sounds like a great job otherwise.

We need to support each other in HR as teachers, midwives, nurses and others are doing in grassroots groups for their professions.

I'm looking to make contact with GC women working in the HR profession. I want to get a group organised for us!

*for being SO upset

Gosh I feel better for being as upset by this TWAW being pushed into the progressive movement by progressive leaders I used to follow.
I don't trust the judgment of one host since he said angrily he can't understand why anyone would freak out over a transwomen in women's sports. He's very educated and I'm sure he knows the arguments on both sides but only chose to voice one side.
I also quit trusting AOC as much after finding out she was such a strong advocate of TWAW. It shows either really bad judgment or dishonesty.

Me too OP.

Meanwhile here is a brief conversation from a recent visitor to the hospital:

"Lady topping up the masks,l pointed out how the ones they have squash your face, she said they had forgot to order, l said if they had ones with rainbows on they wouldn't have forgotten to order she said they'd have millions"

Looks like I'm not the only member of staff to be fed up with it.

Ffs. Why can’t a hospital just be a hospital?? Why does it need to waste staff time competing for a badge like some bizarre adult sex-obsessed version of Blue Peter?

If you haven't been there too long OP I would try to move on and explain away the time on your CV.

If you were to stay I would look into joining a Union or paying to be a member of the Free Speech Union (not perfect but I hear they are very helpful), check your house insurance for cover on employment issues and I would look to join a grassroots group that is relevant. For example there are sensible, not gender woo, groups for midwifery and teaching. If an HR one hasn't been created yet then there will be one soon I expect. I once thought the NHS wouldn't buy into this but I've realised that as a public-facing service it was probably an easy target and I understand so much more about institutional capture now.

There is good advice to counter this if challenged as you may find it difficult to keep your head down. Sex Matters and Legal Feminist are good resources I find. Also search here for 'pronouns' and you'll find more.

Due to your DH and sister buying into all this I hope you have some local groups like the Women's Rights Network or Standing for Women locals for support. It's really important so to stay sane, I hope you find your way with family and with the job. You're not alone.

What a shame, it is probably easiest to move jobs.

The cynic in me thinks that some NHS managers are motivated to promote this stuff because mixed wards are generally easier to manage than maintaining separate sex ones.

it’s creeping in, I’m seeing more ‘my pronouns are’ on email signatures by the day.

i was asked to put mine on, my answer was I didn’t care what someone referred to me in my absence. Our resident french speaker then went into a feminine/masculine rant. Does the pizza mind that it’s male? Does the croissant care that it’s female? (I may have got those mixed up). Our wider team tellingly haven’t put any on - possibly because they’ve been given ‘permission’ by our exchange which was in an open meeting. I wanted to get to ‘adult human female’ but the french language dominated the remaining time!

I fear stonewall is still stonewalling the NHS but under another guise. Hospitals are awash with rainbow paraphernalia as they compete for rainbow badge accreditation.

I work in HR too, I'd just leave if I were you, you can try fighting from the inside but risk damaging your career if you're too vocal. I turned down a job last year for this very reason 💐

I'm in Financial services. Totally signed up to Stonewall. In pride week last year they conducted an interview with some senior Gay and Lesbian professionals and they asked the question about whether there was a conflict between Lesbian/womens rights and Trans right- response was that this was totally fake- all lesbians were totally pro trans right/no exclusion etc etc. we have pronouns (not compulsory) questions about our gender stored with data about sex/disability etc - no reeducation of dissenters.
the only "good" thing is that the D&i agenda doesn't really impact anyone- its all lip service - which is generally bad but...

Credit Suisse comes to mind.

NB: other financial service companies do not seem to be an improvement in this regard.

Re: the DoH, this is very removed from NHS Trusts. SW is firmly embedded at every level of many areas in the NHS. Look at the recent responses from NHS personnel to the EHRC guidance: so many seniors declared that they intended to disregard it. afaik, Dr Michael Brady has faced no consequences for the claims around the review of the single sex wards.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4506395-Fears-over-flawed-NHS-single-sex-wards-review-carried-out-by-trans-advocate