Pronouns - sooner than expected - help

Your assumptions aren't facts. You don't always know whether someone is a man or a woman, even if you think you do.

They will have to not use pronouns, just the persons name

Jane came to tea, Jane brought banana bread and I gave Jane a book I just finished reading

Or they could educate themselves as to why so many people find gender based pronouns repressive and repulsive

I really don't give two hoots.

So, what pronouns should one use to refer to you with that response? Just default to "they"?

Disingenuous nonsense. Everyone knows the difference between pronouns as functions of language and personal pronoun statements. It's the equivalent of saying "Actually the Spanish for black IS.... so it can't be offensive."

It's extremely rare to not know whether someone is a woman or a man. It's never happened to me in 40 years of living.

As a female person whose actual name is this and who has lived for nearly half a century without ever stating my pronouns, I can assure you, this has never been a problem.

No, thank you.

Not necessarily no

If the person is meaning your sex is female and only ever uses sex based pronouns then that's fine

If the person thinks that pronouns refer to gender then no I am not happy being referred to as a she

It's what rejecting gender means. I don't believe that there is anything that unites "women" beyond biology . I don't believe that I have a gender that is common with most women but different to that of most men. I don't want any assumptions being made about me based on an assumed gender ( because I have had to fight for my place in the scientific community because of the hidden assumption that my gender would make me incompetent)

So say "she/her". Those are the pronouns you want people to use to refer to you, right?

But I don't believe that any pronoun would be ok. I don't think they are something that change. Born female, I would expect to be referred to as she, her in my absence. I wouldn't expect someone to presume to apply any of the myriad genders to me. Nor would I expect there to be a discussion about it. I am what I am.

If you can't accept that then I have a name.

No "any pronoun" isn't acceptable
That's accepting whatever gender someone else assigns you

If pronouns are to indicate a gender identity then I will have to ask for no pronouns. Just my name

Saying what pronouns one should use to refer to you isn't "forcing to claim a single identity".

If you're okay with any pronouns being used to refer to you, just say "any pronouns".

We had a young male employee want to add pronouns to our registration forms for a website (very male dominated subject matter) - I, and the 2 other C-levels just said no, we didn't want to get involved in all of that, and that was the end of it.

TBH, if someone asks for my pronouns (only happened once) I think there's a shock on my face followed by perhaps a little bit of a smirk at the ridiculousness of asking 5' tall, dumpy me, with huge boobs, whether I'm male or female. The one time I was asked I waved my hand and said 'whatever you like' - and funnily enough, they managed to guess and call me 'she' for the rest of the day.

I also work with people from all over, who I have no idea if they are male or female unless I hear their voice - and TBH, it's never been an issue, if I'm talking about them to someone else I use they/them or their name - as we are so often told, singular they/them has been in use for years, and if I'm talking about a specific person it's really not confusing. It only becomes confusing if a group is also involved, at which point I revert to using the person's name to make it clear.

Yep. Tell me yours if it is important to you but sod off expecting me the adopt any, for any reason.

To be clear. I despise gender expectations. I think they are incredibly harmful to everyone. I will not ever, for any reason whatsoever, join in with gender ideology.

To be equally clear, I also couldn't care if you identified as a moon troll. I will refer to you by whatever words and names you want me to. But don't expect me to be infallible and don't take it as any kind of deliberate offence if I forget or get it wrong.

Now, can we all just agree that sex is a biological reality, gender is a social construct and leave it there?

You don't insist that I am being mean and I won't point out the blindingly obvious.

I really have had enough if this claptrap now.

But that's not true is it. Most people on this thread would be happy to know what pronouns a trans person would like us to us about them. We just don't want our sex-based pronouns erased, and so have no need to announce anything we "identity" with because we don't.

pronouns presumes a shared or objective political truth, which may exclude some research participants. I personally am also uncomfortable in pushing anyone to declare pronouns that they either do not believe in, or are not ready to share with others.

or say we can only store relevant data, this data isn’t relevant to the survey

or change it for sex if that is relevant

or a how would you like to be known box.

I don't think the op is uncomfortable with trans identity

Just uncomfortable with everyone being forced to claim a single identity, being reduced to an identity

I would agree that many of these suggested responses are disingenuous, and I don't think that helps anyone at all. I would just go:

(0. Ignore request)

1. "No, thank you"
2. (If pressed) "I don't specify"
3. (If pressed again) "I've never had an issue"
4. (If pressed about showing allyship) "Well, I'm happy to hear anyone else's pronoun, I myself don't specify"
5. (If pressed further on allyship) "I believe there are different perspectives on these issues and I don't feel right that we insist on everyone participating in this. Let's move on, I'm conscious of time".

IRL I've never had to go further than 1 with a hint of 4 (though it's not come up often, thankfully).

Likewise, the survey had a very easy solution about data needing to be collected only for specified purposes as per GDPR , which will often be enough to knock workplace initiatives on the head, without making disingenuous arguments to people who may have only the faintest grasp of the issues in the first place, and will not know what to make of the response.

Disingenuous but safer than laughing.

That's quite disingenuous, considering your actual motivation isn't concern for anybody, but rather discomfort with trans identities being affirmed.

If you are his manager always make sure that you or another senior manager has editing rights to all the documents produced by your department. Its a pain to end up reproducing a new document if your team member moves job.

This is the training location. There will be X numbet of staff participating in todays training. Most of our staff will just use their first name but some may use surnames or work role titles. We are aware of recent changes of employment case law, we here at XYZ believe that it is therefore no longer inappropriate, in a work context, to request that our employees disclose pronouns.
I have already asked everybody to
•pop their nameplate on the table
•pop on a name tag
•use their name at the start of a question.
Let me show you where your nearest toilet is. Breaks and lunch are usually at... if you need IT help with equipment...

Instead of putting the onus on GC employees to erm, out themselves, switch the emphasis. Send an email saying during the upcoming event, you will be addressed using pronuns based on your sex, as recorded in your HR file. If this is likely to cause upset, please let the organiser know in advance which pronoun you would prefer.

The problem is that this nonsense is being portrayed as being the norm rather than an exception. Why should everyone be dragged into a linguistic circle jerk to satisfy a minority of people desperate to show that there really is something interesting about themselves.

I think a lot of disingenuous bollocks is talked about the pronoun thing.
quite clearly it is not quite only about how people should refer to you in the third person. It is about asking how you would like people to address you if your appearance doesn't match what you would like to be called (so if you don't look like a woman really but you want to be addressed as a woman)

So all you need to say is "it might make some people feel uncomfortable and out them" and leave it at that. If you're ancient and creaky and nearing retirement (me) you might also like to point out that outing yourself as a woman before you have to might mean people don't take what you say seriously etc.