BBC Sport: ‘Protect Women’s Sport,’ say two British elite athletes

the term “biological males”...deliberately demeans and devalues trans women’s identities and humanity

But terms like "bleeders" and "uterus-havers" do not devalue women's identities and humanity? The trans ideology is sheer hypocrisy.

And as for the attitude that there isn't enough evidence () to prove that letting males compete in women's events is in any way harmful or dangerous, so we should just let them go ahead until they do cause enough harm to convince the ideologues, doesn't that remind you of something else? The attitude that if a woman sees a male in the women's changing rooms or toilets she should not question that person's presence, but if she is assaulted by that male she can call the police afterwards.

yes peregrina most definitely.

Can I assume that Harper is someone with xy chromosomes?

It's now getting hard to tell with the way pronouns are being used interchangeably.

Devine uses the term “biological males”, code for a trans-exclusionary position, which deliberately demeans and devalues trans women’s identities and humanity and ignores scientific research demonstrating that the athletic capabilities of transgender women are not comparable to those of cisgender men. This language injects a clear bias used to prime participants for answering questions.

That would be THE TRUTH, you absolute muppet.

To 'remove that bias' is to insist that everyone LIES. To benefit males. Because if the truth is spoken it's bloody clear this is an outrageous act of extreme misogyny.

That article with Tucker and Harper is very telling. Tucker is all very sensible, science-based arguments, and Harper is all emotional nonsense. Because there's nothing else.

I am very glad that Dennis Pursley is not afraid to use he/she when talking about 'Lia' Thomas.

Good to see this on the BBC.

Let's remember that the current definition of a trans woman athlete is the equivalent of a man undergoing prostate cancer treatment.

No surgery is required, they are not required to be taking oestrogen, they are simply required to lower their testosterone levels.

Under current rules a man with low testosterone levels meets the requirement to compete as a woman.

There's science that says transwomen have no biological advantage, there's also science that says God was behind evolution.

Sorry that link to

Transgender athletes: What do the scientists say?

^By Dan Roan & Katie Falkingham
BBC Sport^

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517

a good read

Speaking of Harper.

www.bbc.co.uk/sport/61346517

Yes.

And the bit about 'biological males' being code. Nope, just fact.

Surely accepting trans women means accepting them fully - including the fact that they are biologically male?

"Throughout the survey, Devine uses the term “biological males”, code for a trans-exclusionary position, which deliberately demeans and devalues trans women’s identities and humanity and ignores scientific research demonstrating that the athletic capabilities of transgender women are not comparable to those of cisgender men."

Spot on DeepThought42 .

As someone on Twitter (can't remember who) summarised it, female-only sports are ALREADY an inclusive measure, by giving chances to participate and succeed to women and girls, who wouldn't bother if they were competing against males.

I've grown to hate the word "inclusion" in its modern guise - it always means pushing out women.

" It is common knowledge that, generally speaking, when it comes to speed, power and strength, men are advantaged over women. Hormone treatment can mitigate this advantage, but it cannot eliminate it.
^^
"To pretend otherwise is to defy reason, logic, science and common sense; not to mention reality and truth. Regardless of whether you consider Lia Thomas to be a man or a woman, the fact is that he/she is a person with male chromosomes, and male physiology.
^^
"At best, Lia was a very mediocre male swimmer whose times did not even come close to being fast enough to qualify to compete in the men’s NCAA championships, much less to win an event"

www.swimmingworldmagazine.com/news/five-time-olympic-coach-dennis-pursley-calls-for-end-of-transgender-participation/

This article from former US Olympic coach Dennis Pursley is superb

Great post DeepThought42 There's so much self interest in all of this - and it always excludes women.

I clicked the link to see who the athletes are, not realising they are anonymous. I understand why, but how the hell did we get to a point where people stating basic facts have to remain anonymous? While simultaneously people spouting absolute non-sense are happy to put their name, face and reputation to a pack of lies, obfuscation and ideologically driven hogwash? Some days it really is too much!

I bet they have a long standard template from Harper et al that they just copy and paste into every article about this as I’m sure I’ve read the lower two thirds of that a million times.

If you look at something like a marathon, yes, the elite women will come in much quicker than the average Joe manages. But I have never seen a woman come first in a marathon where men are running.

As for having an open category - I strongly suspect that the Lia's and Emilies of this world would not want to compete with men again.

So pleased to read this. And you're right Helleofabore. The issues with women's sport cannot be silenced any longer. That genie will never go back in the bottle.

"Like anyone else in this sport, Lia has trained diligently to get to where she is and has followed all of the rules and guidelines put before her. "Like anyone else in this sport, Lia doesn't win every time. And when she does, she deserves, like anyone else in this sport, to be celebrated for her hard-won success, not labelled a cheater simply because of her identity.

If I train really hard, do I deserve to enter the local primary school's sports day? I probably won't win every time, either.

Each week more Olympic and National sportswomen are giving voice to their rejection of male inclusion In female sports categories.

And everytime that they do, the world not only sees the growing number of women speaking out, but the vitriol and abuse being piled onto them. Or the stories of these women being told their positions are at risk to manipulate them to remain silent.

It really has gone too far now.

Hence this new resurgence of any research that may support exclusion is to be rejected as transphobic. However, even then doing that will now just add to the momentum, because so many previously supportive people are seeing this through this movements lies and behind the scenes coercion.