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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Non binary rant

56 replies

Scrunchy95 · 09/05/2022 10:05

Hi,
Please excuse me but i need a rant. So am leaving this here...
My daughter just told me that they are non binary. As far as they are concerned I am on board and supportive. Because being a good mum is the most important thing to me. But (shh) nope, I’m hating society right now. We are living in a time when in some places women are being outlawed to have abortions. Girls hate the idea of being a girl so much that they create a non existent category for themselves but men call themselves women and compete in our sports. Fucking fed up with it all. Who’s turning back the clocks? We were better off when we were the kids.
Right rant over..

OP posts:
BluesandClues · 09/05/2022 23:29

@Nightmare2022 as an older autistic woman (late diagnosed), I’d probably tell her the following.

That actually, this feeling of disconnect with your body, feeling out of step with your peers and society at large is not unusual. Autistic brains tend to mature a little later than neurotypicals. So whilst you’ve just about caught up with everyone at primary school, suddenly you’re launched into this even more complex social environment. The rules don’t make sense, it’s chaos unending, you probably never really thought about your body before.

Your body was just that, your body, you’d never really paid any attention to it. Then suddenly, you’re in an environment which pays a LOT of attention to the body. The social rules become a lot more complex, and seem to change on the whim of someone called Chloe or Dylan in the year above you.

Then your body starts to change, without any warning and you suddenly have to do things with it that you didn’t have to before. What do you mean shave my legs? But it makes my legs feel weird? Also, a bra?! The straps dig in, but that popular girl is wearing the same type, I should be wearing that. Make up? But it makes my face itch. Why do I need to do this? Also, love interests?! Not sure I like anyone, is this weird? The thought of a kiss sounds disgusting if i’m honest. But everyone else is doing it.

Id tell her that she probably feels weird, out of place, that she doesn’t fit in. That she doesn’t seem to be the same as everyone else. That inside she might question if she’s an alien because she doesn’t like what so and so likes. So she looks and sees that there are people online that describe what I’m feeling, that ‘oddness,’ and they say they’re non binary. Perhaps this explains it? This might be a way to have some control, to be able to make those inner thoughts that they struggle to process or figure out feelings.

I remember feeling exactly the same as a teenager, I wore baggy clothes until I was seventeen and had short hair. I literally looked like a boy, I didn’t want to be a boy. Just wasn’t really bothered by what others were bothered by. I have a vivid memory of sitting on the steps in the playground around aged 13/14 and others discussing shaving their legs. I remember looking down at my own legs, that I’d never shaved before and thinking ‘oh, is that what I’m supposed to do?’ Similar with eyebrows, mine were very thick. My younger sister had to help me (it didn’t go well 🤣😬). People used to talk about sex all the time, I felt weird that I didn’t really want to do any of that stuff. My control thing ended up being a full blown eating disorder (really common in autistic girls), body dysmorphia and crippling anxiety. I found refuge in Mills and Boon, and the Star Trek fandom online.

My brain did catch up a bit by the same I got to 16/17 and I felt happier in my body, and it was when I went to uni at 19 that I finally settled within myself and engaged in ‘girly things.’ I also got a crush on a bit of a twit, and made an absolute fool of myself in the process. Well, what was MSN messenger for if not that 🤣.

I think if I’d have been a teen today, I would have probably been labelled a transmale or non binary. Instead, I was labelled as a ‘bit of a weirdo tomboy.’

I’m now married, I have children. Probably still a bit of a tomboy to be fair, I still struggle with issues around eating disorders. I’m mostly recovered.

I think todays teens are rushed, rushed in ways that perhaps we weren’t. There’s so much more pressure as well, and you can’t just be nothing, you can’t just be ‘Jane’ you’ve got to be ‘Jane with an Instagram famous cat’ or the like.

I dunno, the above might be a load of old twaddle. I just hope things improve soon for you guys.

DomesticatedZombie · 09/05/2022 22:35

Nightmare2022 · 09/05/2022 22:16

And when they tell you they want to have their breasts surgically removed because they are not a girl and they hate their own body so much they can’t bear to shower, what do you say then?

That sounds so hard. Have you got support, help, healthcare?

Vargas · 09/05/2022 22:32

Massive sympathy for those dealing with this crap. My teenage dd has recently told me that a nb person in her year has gone back to being a girl and seems happy to be called by either name. Hopefully sanity will prevail for all these unhappy and confused teens.

Nightmare2022 · 09/05/2022 22:16

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 09/05/2022 22:04

I'd say good, we seem to have done well at raising you to see that gender stereotypes are just that - stereotypes. I'd ask them to introduce to someone binary if they ever met one as it would be fascinating to talk to someone who felt willing and able to conform to every old-fashioned gender stereotype.

And when they tell you they want to have their breasts surgically removed because they are not a girl and they hate their own body so much they can’t bear to shower, what do you say then?

Whatiswrongwithmyknee · 09/05/2022 22:04

I'd say good, we seem to have done well at raising you to see that gender stereotypes are just that - stereotypes. I'd ask them to introduce to someone binary if they ever met one as it would be fascinating to talk to someone who felt willing and able to conform to every old-fashioned gender stereotype.

Echobelly · 09/05/2022 21:51

Oldest also NB here - DH are what we call 'supportively sceptical'. The fact is, we're not going to win against the zeitgeist, even if we particularly wanted to try, so we're just being there, gently explaining that feeling weird about yourself and your body is normal adolescent stuff and this generation is seeing everything through the lens of gender right now, and encouraging their feminism. As others have said, being that tether. We are using their pronouns and preferred name (which is fortunately rather nice and I think might stick whether or not the gender identity does).

I do think there are a tiny number of people who are genuinely non-binary, and I know one or two adults who I think it really is a thing for.

For a lot of AFAB kids into it, it's a way of expressing not identifying with trad femme stereotypes, which is not the same thing, and you could go around pointing out contradictions etc, but no one, least of all a teenager, was ever convinced by smug 'Gotcha!' arguments about anything.

DomesticatedZombie · 09/05/2022 21:43

You're their tether to reality in an insane world.

That's a great way of looking at it, thank you.

Lottapianos · 09/05/2022 21:34

'You're their tether to reality in an insane world.'

Very well put. Very few adults seem able / willing to hold on to reality for children

Phobiaphobic · 09/05/2022 21:22

DomesticatedZombie · 09/05/2022 18:33

Do you feel able to set boundaries and say what they are?

Sometimes I think when someone is kicking hard against something, they actually need a firm 'no', and that maybe someone else calmly, compassionately but firmly stating their own boundaries and saying 'no' is ultimately going to be in their best interests.

Wholeheartedly agree with this. Knowing what I know now, I'd steadfastedly refuse to get on board, and keep calmy holding my ground. Let them rage, ridicule, ignore you, but underneath the fact you're holding the line will register. You're their tether to reality in an insane world.

Nightmare2022 · 09/05/2022 20:26

luciatrope · 09/05/2022 19:41

"That's nice, dear, I am too."

Basically, make it as un-cool as possible. Really ham it up. Wear a big thick coat and NHS glasses, rolled-up jeans and old brogues, and have your hair flicked to the side. Perfect the listless, ultra-superior gaze, and use words like valid and important while trying to remind people you exist.

In my child’s case it is not about being cool. My child is deeply unhappy and struggles to fit in, due to ASD. This identity is an explanation for them as to why they feel so different and unhappy. The logic appears to be “I am not like other girls (which is true), therefore I am not a girl” If I mocked and trivialised them in the way you suggest I don’t think it would go well.

luciatrope · 09/05/2022 19:41

"That's nice, dear, I am too."

Basically, make it as un-cool as possible. Really ham it up. Wear a big thick coat and NHS glasses, rolled-up jeans and old brogues, and have your hair flicked to the side. Perfect the listless, ultra-superior gaze, and use words like valid and important while trying to remind people you exist.

Nightmare2022 · 09/05/2022 19:24

In the same non-binary boat here. I feel your pain @Scrunchy95 and @SedentaryCat

IcakethereforeIam · 09/05/2022 19:05

@SedentaryCat I'm so sorry, that little post might be one of the saddest things.

DomesticatedZombie · 09/05/2022 18:33

SedentaryCat · 09/05/2022 18:09

@DomesticatedZombie Thanks. Yes, it's been really tough. I think I've had enough now.

Do you feel able to set boundaries and say what they are?

Sometimes I think when someone is kicking hard against something, they actually need a firm 'no', and that maybe someone else calmly, compassionately but firmly stating their own boundaries and saying 'no' is ultimately going to be in their best interests.

alreadytaken · 09/05/2022 18:17

Non binary can also be I refuse to be pigeon holed into your little boxes.

You cant "identify out" of your body but you can refuse to participate in genders.

Find something else for them to rebel against - like whatever you think you are you are still cleaning the bedroom.

SedentaryCat · 09/05/2022 18:09

@DomesticatedZombie Thanks. Yes, it's been really tough. I think I've had enough now.

Zerogravity · 09/05/2022 18:06

I think we should just all identify as non-binary - I mean, I guess everyone fits the category of not conforming to gender stereotypes. Perhaps they might start to question what the point is of the label if it includes everyone?

DomesticatedZombie · 09/05/2022 17:04

Flowers SedentaryCat, that sounds really hard going.

Lottapianos · 09/05/2022 17:03

'Massive amounts of negative energy and tears (from them) because we are transphobic, etc, etc.'

Sounds so stressful, sad and draining. I guess every teenager since time began has been though a phase of thinking that their parents know nothing, and they know it all, but this is so much more intense as it's all being fuelled by social media

SedentaryCat · 09/05/2022 16:18

With you OP. My eldest has spend the last 2 years identifying as non-binary. We'd just got on top of that, using their preferred pronouns and new name, and now they have told us that they are a transman. Massive amounts of negative energy and tears (from them) because we are transphobic, etc, etc. (Nope, we're not).

It's all me, me, me. No thought as to how it's affecting the rest of the family. They really couldn't see the impact of it all yesterday and criticised the very occasional slip that we make (she/her pronouns and using their birth name - no, actually, I won't refer to it as your dead name. You aren't dead.).

I suggested they have a think about how it would feel for them to suddenly find out I wasn't their mum (I am), but that I was, in fact, their auntie (I'm not) which would cause a huge amount of mental readjustment and a change in how they should address me. They absolutely couldn't see what difference it would make.

I'm of the opinion that it's a control thing - making everyone around them stop and think before speaking. I still don't believe what I'm told by them that anything up to 85% of their year group are LGBTQ+.

Bloody hell, sorry for the rant but I feel just a tiny bit better for that. OP, I second the recommendations above - I found the Bayswater support group very helpful.

All I can say is to keep on buggering on. You aren't a shit parent.

MangyInseam · 09/05/2022 16:16

I've been there OP. The emotion of anger towards the larger culture can be overwhelming, and I'm not typically an emotionally reactionary person.

FWIW, I didn't go along with the pronoun stuff and name changes. I don't think that's a requirement.

UsernameNotAvailableHmm · 09/05/2022 15:55

I feel your pain OP

FemaleAndLearning · 09/05/2022 15:50

It would be so much better if they could say I'm not identifying with gender or I want to smash gender stereotypes. They think they are being gender non conforming but mostly they default to make characteristics and clothes. I find it really sad and must be hard for parents particularly as non binary is often the first step towards a trans identity.
OP are you aware of support groups for watchful waiting such as Bayswater Support, Transgender Trend and Genspect they might help you keep your sanity.

DomesticatedZombie · 09/05/2022 15:43

To a certain extent, I can see the logic of wanting to be 'non-binary'. The trouble is that we can't identify out of our sex.

IcakethereforeIam · 09/05/2022 13:18

Presumably your daughter believes in allowing people to identify as the wish? Can't you identify as being 'done with this shit (DWTS)', I think it's pronounced - snigger - doots.

Seriously, I'm probably being naive, I hope nb is a step back, a step away from id'ing as male.