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Feminism: Sex and gender discussions

Voyeur filmed women in changing rooms - suspended sentence

35 replies

DomesticatedZombie · 08/05/2022 10:20

www.bbc.co.uk/news/uk-england-59399309

"He's gone from putting cameras in a bag on the beach, with people sunbathing... to then going extreme into filming in leisure facilities and finally hacking into people's computers."

...

"He changed his real name by deed poll before he was officially charged so he could protect his privacy.

He was able to use his new name and so protect his identity throughout the court case, from being charged to sentencing, giving him the luxury to remain "unknown"."

This is clearly a man who went to enormous lengths to spy on women - a huge number of women - over the course of an extended period of time.

Victims called his sentence 'unduly lenient' . (He got a 2 year suspended sentence and is on the SRO).

The woman quoted here is asking for voyeurism to be included on the Unduly Lenient Sentence scheme.

'The Unduly Lenient Sentence scheme, under which people can appeal a sentence, has been expanded six times and includes many serious sexual offences.

Most recently, sexual offences involving an abuse of trust, indecent images offences and domestic abuse offences were added, however voyeurism is not currently included within its scope.'

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ifIwerenotanandroid · 09/05/2022 15:29

Is there any reason why both/all his names should not be given, either in court or in the papers? There's nothing against 'deadnaming' people, is there, apart from revealing someone's change of gender or endangering people in witness protection?

Why not say X otherwise known as Y/formerly known as Y/known as Y at the time the offences were committed, etc? I thought that was standard police-speak.

Should changing one's name be allowed in these circumstances? Couldn't that right be put on hold as soon as someone's arrested?

Thelnebriati · 09/05/2022 13:35

Thats an interesting point; one reason why I think the sentance was unduly leniant in this case is the perp showed a clear pattern of escalating behaviour, which led to further types of offence (e.g. its a separate offence to hack someones computer.) I'm not convinced the law has fully caught up with how computers are used and misused, or the effect they can have on people's behaviour.

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 09/05/2022 09:02

FemaleAndLearning · 09/05/2022 07:55

Is there any evidence that voyeurism is a gateway to more serious crimes like there is with indecent exposure?

Some discussion but my impression is that the area is underresearched, like indecent exposure, so there probably isn't enough analysis to assess the gateway connection and if there is one. It may happen because digital voyeurism can now involve other incidental charges such as possessing indecent images, transmitting them etc.

www.psychologytoday.com/gb/blog/why-bad-looks-good/201801/beyond-looking-when-voyeurism-leads-criminal-behavior

www.sciencedirect.com/topics/biochemistry-genetics-and-molecular-biology/voyeurism

FemaleAndLearning · 09/05/2022 07:55

Is there any evidence that voyeurism is a gateway to more serious crimes like there is with indecent exposure?

andweallsingalong · 08/05/2022 20:19

SammyScrounge · 08/05/2022 19:34

Re monitoring of sex offenders. Some years ago a little boy was sexually assaulted, murdered, and shoved down the rubbish chute in a tower block.
The murderer lived in the same block of flats and was supposed to be monitored after his release from prison two years or so earlier.
A spokesman for the police was honest. There were several hundred sex offenders in the area and there was no way they could all be monitored - he didn't have the manpower, he really didn't
I suppose they must try to prioritise the most dangerous offenders. A voyeur is horrible but he isn't dangerous.
The answer is more manpower for the police and longer sentences for sex offenders.

That's awful.

I wonder if it was before 2015 when Shpo's came in (and the whole criminal justice system was overhauled). Or before dedicated MOSOVO officers (not sure when they came in)

Personally I would expect all Shpo's to be monitored and enforced from voyeurs to images to contact offender (upon release).

SammyScrounge · 08/05/2022 19:34

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/05/2022 12:55

If I were confident that the active monitoring is as above, I would find that comforting.

However, I find the discussion about the Register difficult because of the threads on FWR about how straightforward it is to persuade some police forces to remove it (iirc, West Yorks is particularly obliging along with areas of Wales). And that's aside from the issue of name changing.

site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights register sex offenders remove name

Re monitoring of sex offenders. Some years ago a little boy was sexually assaulted, murdered, and shoved down the rubbish chute in a tower block.
The murderer lived in the same block of flats and was supposed to be monitored after his release from prison two years or so earlier.
A spokesman for the police was honest. There were several hundred sex offenders in the area and there was no way they could all be monitored - he didn't have the manpower, he really didn't
I suppose they must try to prioritise the most dangerous offenders. A voyeur is horrible but he isn't dangerous.
The answer is more manpower for the police and longer sentences for sex offenders.

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/05/2022 19:24

Here we are - it was in 2016 (amazed I remembered it)
www.belfasttelegraph.co.uk/news/northern-ireland/bangor-camera-pervert-faces-mixed-changing-rooms-ban-34933121.html

MrsOvertonsWindow · 08/05/2022 19:19

Thank you andweallsingalong for the information. I do recall one predator who was barred from women's and mixed sex changing rooms (if I recall correctly).
Shame that's not used more often..

FemaleAndLearning · 08/05/2022 19:09

I'm concerned about this happening at our new swimming pool. I've contacted the company who will be running it to ask what their policies are, not heard back.
Does anyone have any good examples of policies on voyeurism, exhibitionism and secret filming in local leisure facilities?

andweallsingalong · 08/05/2022 19:08

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/05/2022 17:23

I'm feeling slightly more reassured. I think it's that the cases that stick in my mind are ones like this where it seemed quite straightforward for someone to breach an SHPO.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4218934-Transitioning-child-rapist-who-breached-order-spared-jail-over-prison-safety-concerns

That said, despite the numbers of such breaches recorded here (of a subgroup rather than the general class of SHPO), I have to say that I don't know the denominator so I don't know if it is a very small number of people who go on to violate an SHPO or (say) 10% or so of all those who are subject to them.

transcrimeuk.com/category/sexual-offences/breaching-sopo/

To be fair the courts do deal with lots of cases of breach of sexual harm prevention order or sex offender registration, but I see it the opposite way in that it's that they are so closely monitored that infringements are picked up quickly and returned to court, usually before anything really bad can happen.

So lots of failures to sign the register at the right time, unauthorised device found, deleted data or new relationships discovered (and disclosure made).

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/05/2022 17:23

I'm feeling slightly more reassured. I think it's that the cases that stick in my mind are ones like this where it seemed quite straightforward for someone to breach an SHPO.

www.mumsnet.com/talk/womens_rights/4218934-Transitioning-child-rapist-who-breached-order-spared-jail-over-prison-safety-concerns

That said, despite the numbers of such breaches recorded here (of a subgroup rather than the general class of SHPO), I have to say that I don't know the denominator so I don't know if it is a very small number of people who go on to violate an SHPO or (say) 10% or so of all those who are subject to them.

transcrimeuk.com/category/sexual-offences/breaching-sopo/

andweallsingalong · 08/05/2022 16:57

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/05/2022 12:55

If I were confident that the active monitoring is as above, I would find that comforting.

However, I find the discussion about the Register difficult because of the threads on FWR about how straightforward it is to persuade some police forces to remove it (iirc, West Yorks is particularly obliging along with areas of Wales). And that's aside from the issue of name changing.

site:mumsnet.com/Talk/womens_rights register sex offenders remove name

That's scandalous, especially the DBS loophole, but different to this guys 10 year Sexual Harm Prevention Order.

A SHPO is a court order with set conditions with no discretion for the police to remove. Rigorously monitored by specially trained (MOSOVO) police officers who will do regular visits and searches of his accommodation.

The order will state :-
*. Where he needs to live

  • restrictions on devices and social media with conditions not to delete and have available for inspection
  • might have exclusion zones
  • might have no contact or no unsupervised contact conditions
  • might have to wear a buddy tag with real time GPS tracking

And that's in addition to signing the sex offenders register and his suspended sentence order with mandatory intensive rehabilitation.

There are never any guarantees someone won't reoffend, but this guy will be rigorously supervised and challenged on his behaviour.

MangyInseam · 08/05/2022 16:46

Prison just isn't the deterrent people imagine in some cases, either. In some instances, yes, but for things like this, I tend to think not so much - people who do this stuff are lacking in terms of anticipating outcomes or in self-control, so the prospect of prison doesn't stop them.

And it's not like they are actually out of public circulation for a long time. It's not that protective.

andweallsingalong · 08/05/2022 16:41

Thelnebriati · 08/05/2022 14:49

Why not both? Prison for punishment, plus the Sexual Harm prevention order?

Because prisons are usually overcrowded and under resourced, with 23 hours per day in a cell during covid (not sure if this has lifted) giving very little time or access to skilled staff to carry our rehabilitative work.

Add in that sex offenders all tend to be housed together to limit the risk of violence from other prisoners so spend 24 hours a day with like minded people (cell mate(s) and others on the wing) validating their behaviours and discussing potential for more serious offending / avoiding detection....

BattyOrange · 08/05/2022 15:23

WhiteFire · 08/05/2022 14:42

Can anyone else see Mishy's post in grey with a ❕in a circle next to it?

Yes, I see that too - although the "!" looks more like an "i" to me.

Thelnebriati · 08/05/2022 15:01

I posted it on Site Stuff.

PonyPatter44 · 08/05/2022 14:57

WhiteFire · 08/05/2022 14:42

Can anyone else see Mishy's post in grey with a ❕in a circle next to it?

Yes, I can, WhiteFire. Bit odd, no?

Thelnebriati · 08/05/2022 14:49

Why not both? Prison for punishment, plus the Sexual Harm prevention order?

WhiteFire · 08/05/2022 14:42

Can anyone else see Mishy's post in grey with a ❕in a circle next to it?

MangyInseam · 08/05/2022 14:06

Yeah, I have to kind of agree with the poster above, I'm not convinced that jail is actually a real solution. It seems worse but it's not at all clear that it creates a better outcome in the end, and it can have an element of "lets just make this look harsh to satisfy people's sense of revenge." It's also a significant expense and the more people that get thrown in jail the less there is available to try other things that may be more effective.

DomesticatedZombie · 08/05/2022 13:59

All good points, andweallsingalong, and Artichokeleaves. The ultimate best outcome is to stop these crimes from happening at all - I appreciate this is a far more complex question than sentence length. I note the man involved was a heavy porn user.

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DomesticatedZombie · 08/05/2022 13:52

odd comment, Mishy. Why do you feel the need to bring trans people into this discussion?

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RufustheFloralmissingreindeer · 08/05/2022 13:26

Or in a manner they did intend

EmbarrassingHadrosaurus · 08/05/2022 13:15

It's up to you, Mishy but I'd recommend that you ask for withdrawal of your transphobic comment. You might be in some jeopardy of it being screenshotted and used in a manner other than you intended on other sites.

MishyJDI · 08/05/2022 13:12

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