Uterus transplants

Thank you @AsTreesWalking that's really encouraging to hear. I'm glad you're feeling better

There are clearly anatomical boundaries
You don't say
Bioethics - remember when that was a thing?

@NotAScoobyToBeSeen my sympathies re. endo and hysterectomy. Been there. I just wanted to say that after years of pain and anemia I had a hysterectomy (kept my ovaries) and once I had recovered from the op (fairly quickly) it was marvellous! I didn't feel like a new woman- I felt like 3 new women! I could play with my children, walk up stairs, live. I don't know your circumstances, of course, but it can be a truly life-enhancing thing. Best of luck.
Sorry for derail.

Yep.

The only thing it does is make it more likely that women will opt out of the organ donor register for after they die. Like when I’m dead I might be happy for someone with kidney troubles to have a kidney but no way is some weirdo using my womb to kill himself and a child to satisfy his fantasies and a doctor’s god complex.

But anyway it isn’t medically possible for this to succeed and so it would be banned in sane countries.

I don't support it even there. How many female animals were pointlessly tortured and killed in the experiments leading up to that?

Good point Kimi. I wonder how many women, when offered a womb transplant and told of the reality - we’ve had to torture and kill thousands of small animals for this, here you go - would still want to go ahead with it.

I know medical science has always involved an element of animal experimentation, and that many amazing advances in curing diseases in humans have come about by the death of animals. Something of which I’m acutely aware as my own life saving medication comes from an animal source.

For an organ which is all about creating and sustaining life to be associated with so much death and suffering seems especially barbaric. I wouldn’t want to downplay the agony of women unable to bear much wanted children, but given that the outcome isn’t life saving as such, it does seem excessive to put so much research into this. Even more so when attempting to implant into males.

I know what you’re saying, but tbh the breeding “kink” isn’t exclusive to one sex or gender, and the thrill I mentioned isn’t necessarily a sexual one, just the validation of being “one of the gals” which appears to be an accepted part of all this. If I’ve been naughty I’ll accept my slap on the wrist with good grace though! Haven’t had a strike for a while now….

These are instances though I believe where the woman could not carry a child due a medical issue - ie being born without a womb, under developed womb, loss of womb due to cancer. I fully support it in these circumstances where it's come from a family member

In the examples that you give, these were live donations from family members. Would you feel differently about the donation to the same sort of women if it could be obtained as a gift from a deceased donor?

I don't support it even there. How many female animals were pointlessly tortured and killed in the experiments leading up to that?

It's not research that saves lives or improves life quality- it's just pandering to "gimme gimme, I want, I must have"

Toes can be grafted on to replace missing fingers.

I didn't know that! My toes are so ugly though, I don't know if I could. 😂

Whenever I hear people talking about uterine implants into men's bodies as if its a viable option it just tells me they know nothing about biology and how pregnancy works. No surprise from biology deniers I guess.

For me it shows the overwhelming envy at the root of most misogyny, lots of men hate that we have this power to bring forth new life and spend their lives punishing us for it.

Be careful @RoyKentsChestHair you are sailing very close to the wind with that, almost saying out loud the thing we are not allowed to say here, the kink we cannot name. Cos we must 'be nice'.

Although I do wonder if thre recent changes in wind direction means we might actually be able to discuss that again, sometime soon?

TWAW!
Women: want UTx to be able to have children
TW: want UTx to improve their sex lives & help them feel more feminine

Yes, absolutely there is no difference between these motivations 🤨

Moreover:
• Apparently they have no bloody idea what it is they supposedly want transplanted.
• How can a uterus possibly make someone feel feminine when uteruses are things men & non-binary people have? TRAs have strongarmed healthcare systems, charities & private companies around the globe into changing their language so that it is “people” who “have uteruses”. And yet apparently a uterus can make you feel feminine despite having a uterus being utterly unrelated to womanhood. 😵‍💫 Schrödinger’s anatomy?

Would you be expecting ovaries as well? Are men going to be donating their penises?

‘I wonder under what circumstances would you and other posters agree to donation after death?’

Another vote for never. A child is not a right, and I worry about the long term health risks for the child - even where the recipient is female. We already know donor eggs result in riskier pregnancy and I don't see why it would be the same with a womb.

Any other part of me can be taken providing it's for the purposes of saving the life of another. But no one has ever died for lack of a uterus, or lack of a working one.

‘I wonder under what circumstances would you and other posters agree to donation after death?’

Never. I’m pretty sure my womb wouldn’t be much use to anyone, but I’d like my female reproductive bits cremated with the rest of me when it happens.

It would be an implant not a transplant.

Toes can be grafted on to replace missing fingers.

Every time I read anything about uterine implants to a male, the film Aliens 4 swims into view. Particularly the scene when Ripley finds all the less successful clones that were created before her, Ripley8. Experiments 1 through 6 are dead, 7 is alive and still being experimented on.

I had a very visceral reaction to that part of the film. As I have every time someone claims males will one day be able to carry a baby, because I automatically go to the amount of experimentation that will involve. (And of course fail, but with lots of 'collateral damage' along the way.)

I wouldn’t be surprised that if transplanting a uterus from a human woman were banned, these scientists would start trying to grow human uteri in pigs. As they are experimenting with growing kidneys in pigs. What’s to stop them adding to that list of pig farmed organs if they manage it?

I mean it would be just as productive to debate if you'd prefer fingers as toes or toes as fingers. It's physically not possible and completely unethical.

Feeding a delusion, that's all it is.

Oh god I remember that, @Gasp0deTheW0nderD0g Absolutely sick fuckery that one.

Puts me in mind of this. Exceptionally strong stomach needed for this. grahamlinehan.substack.com/p/princess-mom?s=r

Massive trigger warning:

I’m not sure that viable pregnancy is the end goal here. That results in real world repercussions and the responsibility of a child and very little in the way of attention and glamour once it becomes commonplace. We all know that parenthood doesn’t get you attention, sympathy or brownie points.

Surely the most important female experiences that can be gleaned from all this are the suffering - the fetishisation of periods and cramps etc we have already seen. To be able to suffer womanhood is the most female thing of all. The “breeding kink” can be satisfied with the “risk” of pregnancy, the thrill of pissing on a stick, the big cutesy announcement on instagram, the “look at me” baby shower. The sympathy for a miscarriage. The ‘belonging’ that comes from being able to say “it happened to me”. All of those things can be achieved to validate someone’s gender identity ideally without actually needing to carry a baby to full term.

@RoseslnTheHospital
”Nearly all science fiction is "“theoretically surmountable” given enough time and resources. Doesn't mean it's currently possible, practically possible, ethically possible, etc etc.”. Agreed.

“I see nothing that would make me think this is possible in the short, medium or long term.“ I do see many worrying signs that it will be technically possible in the near future and I also see many worrying signs that the groundwork is being done to argue that it is also ethically possible. I think other women also share my concerns.

A big concern I have is why are these scientists surveying MtF trans women and asking “do you want a uterus” as if demand for something somehow justifies that demand being met. They should be surveying we women and asking “would you be willing to donate your uterus?” “And if so under what circumstances”. The assumption that the existence of demand justified taking steps to meet it when it comes to taking from female bodies is honestly misogynistic. And I don’t use that word often.

@Discovereads Nearly all science fiction is "“theoretically surmountable” given enough time and resources. Doesn't mean it's currently possible, practically possible, ethically possible, etc etc.

I have read the links you have posted, previously. I see nothing that would make me think this is possible in the short, medium or long term. The nearest anyone has come is that horrific rat experiment which "surmounts" the massive issues by attaching a female rat to the male rat for the duration of the pregnancy. Now, is that a male pregnancy, or an extension of a female pregnancy using a male body as 'overflow parking'?

@Artichokeleaves
”women should never be allowed to end a pregnancy because pro life, tiny human, omg the horror

but lets create a foetus specifically to experiment on and then destroy to enable this agenda.”

Truthfully though the first view is extreme right wing, the second is extreme left wing. You wouldn’t find a person simultaneously having both views because the first view is an extension of the belief that personhood begins at conception and so a fetus has rights and the second is an extension of the belief that personhood starts after birth- ie the a fetus just a bunch of cells like a tumor so I should be able to have an abortion up to birth view.

The fact they both exist is evidence of how polarised things have become on the political spectrum.