Non-Binary is the new "not like other girls"

I probably could identify as a nonbinary, too, given that I seem to have no particular gender identity and my hobbies and work etc. are all over the gender spectrum (heh). The gender identity system doesn't allow one to opt out of it, so I would be classed as nonbinary, specifically agender! I could demand new pronouns and everything, to control how people talk about me when I am not in the room.

It's fascinating as a social phenomenon. Wonder what percentage in the enbie group is male? Less than half I am willing to bet, but how much less?

• won't apply to them

I really don't understand the non-binary thing. I'm not stereotypically girly but I still consider myself a woman. I find it insulting that people treat it like something to be ashamed of or something you can't be unless you fit a stereotype. I hate that those same people try to opt out of being a woman and don't care about women's rights.
I really worry that as a childless person in my early 30s potential employers will quietly assume I'll leave to have a baby and will continue to worry until I'm well into my 40s. I think every woman should be concerned about it and speak up when it happens but fewer will because they think it doesn't wont to them.

But it is obviously and definitely not a phase. DD has been very clear on that point.

There is also a huge amount of pressure on girls to be NB. It is very much the way of expressing teenage angst which seems to be sweeping schools like wildfire at the moment. 2/3 of the girls in DD's year (10) are either trans masc boys or femme non binary.

DD is non binary but doesn't want any changes to her body (other than puberty not to be happening) and doesn't comment on pronouns. Thank heavens. She also agrees that cat gender, fairy gender etc are utter bobbins.

I just try to tell myself it will probably have less serious long term impacts than the people in my school year with severe anorexia my sister's friends who all cut themselves or the friends of my best friend who were pregnant at 15....

Very true, this message could well be coming from outside of them.

There's a lot of pressure for girls to conform so I guess they are looking for where they fit in and also to make sense of themselves.

But it's a fix that I believe doesn't help them, or women in the long run, much like the author writes.

If I were 25 years younger, I’d probably consider myself non-binary. What I can’t imagine myself ever doing is correcting people’s way of talking about me: I find it incredibly arrogant to think that other people should make special exceptions for me linguistically. I was once asked, walking home from school, by someone I didn’t know, whether I was a boy or a girl? So I obviously was hitting the non-binary mark, long before it ever became popular 😂For me it was about rejecting traditional femininity, I wasn’t going to wear dresses, heels, make up etc, and do ‘girly’ things. I practiced martial arts and played football with the lads. And little to anyone surprise, I grew up to mostly lesbian 😉

There's a good C4 documentary called 'where have all the lesbians gone'. I found it enlightening as it you could see the younger women, in their twenties, clearly having identity crisis. So whilst I disagreed with them it did make me have some sympathy for the things they were struggling with. It's tough being a young person. Male or female.

Lots of the older - by which I mean [late]20s-40s, I’ve not (yet) encountered any in the 50+ bracket - female non-binary people explicitly add the “femme” modifier when telling you they’re non-binary. As well as stressing that gender identity & gender expression should not be conflated &/or confused. They claim every right to be wounded &/or outraged every time they are “misgendered” because they say their long hair; elaborate make-up; & outfits like a crop top, mini skirt & high heels don’t mean they’re at all even slightly a user of female pronouns & how could anyone think that?!

They’re the same demographic who pronounce themselves queer because in Lower V (& it often is Lower V not Y10) they fancied the Head Girl &/or they drunkenly kissed a girl That One Time. It’s all about the Oppression Points & being Special & Interesting.

These kids are basically the goths of the 90s. I have hopes they'll hit 26 and think 'jesus, I've been such a prick' and get over themselves.

Not high hopes, mind you.

Dd was the one that stood out at school for not being non binary nor pansexual. Those were the current faves amongst her class. Anything to avoid boys. Fast forward a year and a few of them fancy boys and have boyfriends so the ideologists are less vocal.

The mean girls being NB nonsense.

Gender non-conforming grey haired menopausal woman here. I know I'm fucking brilliant. I don't need to pretend to belong to some stupid mean girls club. I never have.

and then Amanda Gordon's Roevwade tiktok appeared on my feed and made me believe again!!

@donquixotedelamancha. I admire your optimism. I do see great conversations happening but I also see the TRA agenda becoming more widespead. So many women have been hurt by this and it doesn't seem like stopping.

It feels like the fearless girl in front of the bull.. well guess what.. the chances are the girl was trampled and the city is still not a safe or equal place for women.

But we must carry on speaking out and I am so grateful for those who do.

“A world segregated into male and female categories feels suffocating. Nonbinary identity is a radical escape hatch.”

That's the key, isn't it?
It's opting out of being female because it's hard.
I'd dispute the writer's statement that it's "fucking horrible" because I'm bloody proud to be a woman, but puberty is awful what with the body changes, the periods, the sudden attention from men, the expectation of what you're supposed to do/wear/say/think/want on the basis of gender expectations that are foisted on you whether you want it or not.
And I'd say that those expectations have been given a dose of steroids in the last generation because of social media.
Don't look like a Kardashian?
You can't possibly be a woman!

So we need to be supporting girls to become what ever sort of woman they want, not shrugging our shoulders and holding the escape hatch door open for them.

But I also agree with PPs that "I'm non-binary" is a way of saying "I'm special and different". We have to wonder why that's so prevalent - is it just normal teen behaviour that's been enabled by the adults rather than placed within appropriate boundaries, or is there at least a cohort within a generation that permanently demands to be special?

She was also sacked from her job, denied her full final salary and access to unemployment if she refused to sign a non disclosure and then other organisations that she spoke at (paid and non paid positions) cancelled her talks and she was sacked from volunteer positions. So yes... she was sacked from her job and they cited the article as the reason she was sacked. (Apologies if I misunderstood your post)

You didn't misunderstand- my fault for not reading the article (trying to launch children). I knew about her already from the medium debacle but didn't realise she'd already lost her job by that point.

That article is chilling. I am constantly amazed at these women who are willing to keep going in the face of appalling treatment.

And you say that everytime they punish women they add to the weight of opposition... sadly that doesnt even come close to being true. Mostly when they punish women, women do not have the support or resources to defend or fight, mostly when women are punished, they are silenced.

You are sadly correct in the short term- this strategy has paid big dividends already. I'm not trying to minimise the awful way some women hve suffered and, of course, it often works because not every has the resources to do what MK Fain, M Forstater or JK Rowling have done. Still I hope that, in the long run, totalitarianism is self defeating and the bulling tactics serve to harden resolve and bring attention to the issue.

Just need to point out that even people with DSDs are either male or female, it's just that there are extra chromosomes or variations to complicate the plain old XX or XY. There is no such thing as a non-binary person. There are two sexes and we are all, some of us with variations on the basic binary theme, one or the other.

It strikes me that what the author's friends are going through is that often very difficult period of life, one's 20s, when the world opens up and we're expected to find our feet and live independently and pay rent and work and look perfect and dress stylishly and meet the right man or woman and deal with any shit that our childhood has lumbered us with. It's in your 20s that, imo, feminism can be a lifeline. I wish the women in the article had been able to hold onto feminism and turn their energy outward into something positive rather than taking it out negatively on themselves.

And you say that everytime they punish women they add to the weight of opposition... sadly that doesnt even come close to being true. Mostly when they punish women, women do not have the support or resources to defend or fight, mostly when women are punished, they are silenced.

I used to have an article saved listing many little known women who had lost their publishing contracts due to feminist views they had expressed. This article is no longer available where it was originally shared, these women and many many more who dare not speak out have been silenced. MN offers me this emoji... 🔕 ..

Paraphrasing Donne quote 'For whom the bell tolls'. 'Any woman's silence diminishes me, because I am involved in womankind, whenever one is silenced, they also silence me.'

While silencing other women doesn't actually silence me.. it does make it much more difficult to speak though. I am very grateful for all the brave women who speak out.

I can't imagine any of the teachers I had putting up with this nonsense for a second.

@donquixotedelamancha I am not sure i understand your post ... you say 'She worked as a writer. She was blocked from medium (so not a job, per se but the same effect) and all her existing articles removed.'...

She was also sacked from her job, denied her full final salary and access to unemployment if she refused to sign a non disclosure and then other organisations that she spoke at (paid and non paid positions) cancelled her talks and she was sacked from volunteer positions. So yes... she was sacked from her job and they cited the article as the reason she was sacked. (Apologies if I misunderstood your post)

4w.pub/fired-for-feminism/

So of course the teacher had to say sorry. The girl in question looks like a very girly girl.

Totally. And because I'm special you have to use different pronouns the talk about me and I will be sorely offended if you forget. My teen daughters' friends change their preferred name and pronouns frequently, barely any wishes to be known by their given name. And anyone who doesn't keep up with the name and pronouns they identify with this week is a horrible transphobe. FFS.

She worked as a writer. She was blocked from medium and all her existing articles removed.

Forgot to mention that that censorship is what prompted her to set up the 4w feminist blog. Every time they punish women they end up adding to the weight of opposition.

Just remember that in many cases it's the other girls who told that child they are wired , different and not like them