Page 8 | Local elections and sex/gender/trans issues

DameHelena · 2022-05-04T12:59:02+00:00

I am REALLY struggling to see who I can vote for tomorrow, due to their position on this issue. Labour: no Lib Dems: no Green: no Very much would like not to vote Tory (am historically Labour and/or Green and tend to go Green in local elections). We have a Womens Equality Party candidate, but I can't find their official stance on women's sex-based rights. Does anyone have any knowledge? And how are you voting if you're in the same position as me?

dollybird · 05/05/2022 09:40

I have voted for our local independent, who has been in place for 4-5 years now. We have a few independents in our local area and they, plus one Tory councillor, are the only defence against an overdevelopment obsessed majority Lib Dem council. I don't know what her views are on gender etc, but for this election I am voting firmly with local issues in mind. Come the next general election, I will definitely be voting for protection of women's rights (our local MP is Tory with a healthy majority, but not a Tory stronghold, we had a Lib Dem for many years).

RogersOrganismicProcess · 05/05/2022 09:39

Spoiled my vote for the first time ever. I’ve felt politically homeless before, but managed to go for the least worst option. This time around the least worst option still felt like betrayal of our sex. I hope the reasons for spoiled ballots get passed on. Feels like a silver bullet moment.

Original poster

DameHelena · 05/05/2022 09:27

Tinabn · 05/05/2022 09:22

I despair, everything you are using to justify voting Tory came about under a Tory government. They have screwed the country, are impacting the standard of living of the majority, running down the NHS so they can justify selling it to their friends, underfunding education and doing a good job of breaking up the United Kingdom. I am old enough to have seen the fight for equality so I don’t take any attack on the rights of women lightly but we are being lead by a group of incompetent one trick ponies, only there because they were prepared to lie about Brexit when the only ones who were going to benefit were the maga rich with offshore accounts, we have to get rid of them.
I also have a friend staying from America, she campaigned for abortion rights in the 1970s, talk to her about the rights of women when the far right are in control of the legal process and consider the Bills passed through Parliament last week.
if you vote Tory it is because you support underfunding, inequality and, with the current lot, lies and massive corruption, if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist.

You as well?
You are either failing to comprehend people's posts properly or you are deliberately misunderstanding in order to be obnoxious.
People on here KNOW what the Tories are. The whole point is that on this one – vital – issue, the Tories (whether they mean it or not) are the only major party who have publicly defined correctly what a woman is and said they support our sex-based rights.
I won't waste my time repeating more of what I and others have said about our reasons for contemplating voting this way; they're all on here.

As for 'if you vote Tory it is because you support underfunding, inequality and, with the current lot, lies and massive corruption, if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist.', how dare you. How dare you try to second-guess what people are telling you. It is particularly ironic given that we're talking here about women being believed/listened to/respected.

OP posts:

Tinabn · 05/05/2022 09:22

I despair, everything you are using to justify voting Tory came about under a Tory government. They have screwed the country, are impacting the standard of living of the majority, running down the NHS so they can justify selling it to their friends, underfunding education and doing a good job of breaking up the United Kingdom. I am old enough to have seen the fight for equality so I don’t take any attack on the rights of women lightly but we are being lead by a group of incompetent one trick ponies, only there because they were prepared to lie about Brexit when the only ones who were going to benefit were the maga rich with offshore accounts, we have to get rid of them.
I also have a friend staying from America, she campaigned for abortion rights in the 1970s, talk to her about the rights of women when the far right are in control of the legal process and consider the Bills passed through Parliament last week.
if you vote Tory it is because you support underfunding, inequality and, with the current lot, lies and massive corruption, if you are ok with that don’t justify it by saying you are a feminist.

Original poster

DameHelena · 05/05/2022 09:21

MagpiePi · 05/05/2022 09:11

Traditionally I am a Labour voter but have also flirted with the Lib Dems, when Nick Clegg was first around, and Greens for local elections. This year, I'm voting SDP in the local mayoral election, but will spoil my ballot paper for the council elections as the only choices are Tory, Lib Dem, Labour or Greens.

Here is the SDP's policy on sex and trans issues. Pretty clear IMO https://sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

Wish I had SDP candidates to vote for

OP posts:

Whereareyourshoes · 05/05/2022 09:12

Left wing third sector worker here voting for tory candidates plus one local Lib Dem councillor who works hard for the community. Not voting for any other Lib Dems, Scottish Greens or SNP due to them actively campaigning against women’s rights. Our current council is fully stonewalled so I would like some balance.

MarshaBradyo · 05/05/2022 09:12

DameHelena · 05/05/2022 08:33

This is extremely offensive, as well as off the mark. Here's why:

'gullible women'? How many people on here sound to you as if they really believe the Tories? There's a big discussion about the Tory effect on women more generally and an acknowledgement that sometimes voting is about sending a message.
You suggest that people are dissembling about their reasons for voting Tory and that they actually 'want to' . Why are you disbelieving/second-guessing what people – women – are telling you? How fucking arrogant.

Show quote history

Agree entirely with you. Arrogance and low understanding.

MagpiePi · 05/05/2022 09:11

Traditionally I am a Labour voter but have also flirted with the Lib Dems, when Nick Clegg was first around, and Greens for local elections. This year, I'm voting SDP in the local mayoral election, but will spoil my ballot paper for the council elections as the only choices are Tory, Lib Dem, Labour or Greens.

Here is the SDP's policy on sex and trans issues. Pretty clear IMO https://sdp.org.uk/policies/transgender-and-biological-sex-based-rights/

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 09:11

Floisme, thank you, I think after all I will join you in spoiling my vote.

Or it's Tory ...

Jesus wept the dithering.

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 09:00

Live4weekend · 04/05/2022 22:52

I have a dilemma too!

Local Councillor (Tory) is pretty decent. BUT how can anyone decent represent the current Tory party. So its a no. Even though I have swallowed my dislike for the Tory party before and voted for him due to him being good and active locally.

Green candidate - I know. He is a decent guy and active in local community. Would be a good Councillor and fight for local area. But hate the party nationally and their abhorrent attitude to woman.

Labour- don't know much about candidate but they are my party of choice.

Libs - it's a no as they are too far gone with the removal of women's rights

If you're talking E&W Greens, there are lots of good hardworking feminists in that party that are doing their best to keep women's rights on the agenda. Don't give up on them!

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 08:58

NitroNine · 05/05/2022 02:52

I imagine that suffrage campaigners would be far more concerned with the fact so many women feel they lack adequate representation over 100 years after the first women in the UK gained the right to vote; Constance Markievicz was elected; & Nancy Astor was elected & took her seat. We’re just over 6 years away from the centenary of the Equal Franchise Act (it was passed in July) too.

Spoiling one’s ballot is making use of one’s vote. It’s not something that should be done lightly, obviously, but you’re not obliged to choose the least-worst candidate Because The Suffragettes or any other reason. The point was to be able to freely & fully participate in the democratic process - voting for a candidate simply to have voted for someone isn’t a responsible use of your vote. Spoiling your ballot (there’s information available here about doing so) is a form of [political] protest & it should not be confused with not voting.

It really is so tiresomely sexist that people try to browbeat women into political participation by invoking suffrage campaigners. Actually, when people do this it always seems to be the suffragettes they mention, which is of course not without irony, but that’s not really the point… Nobody makes similar demands of men in the name of the Chartists or the Reform League - apparently we’re somehow still stuck in a world where the vote belongs to men as a part of the natural order; & women must be eternally grateful the franchise has been extended to them.

Show quote history

Oh my word, thank you! You've just relieved me of a burden I ddin't even realise I was carrying!

ImAvingOops · 05/05/2022 08:54

In my area I only have a choice of Lib Dem or Tory

DomesticatedZombie · 05/05/2022 08:54

KylieKoKo · 04/05/2022 15:55

The leader of the Tory party is on record say that Muslim women look like letterboxes and that black people have lower IQs.

If you want to vote to help women then know that your Tory vote doesn't help all women. That might or might not be a deal breaker for you depending on where you stand on racism.

Boris isn't the whole Tory party.

The Tory party also has far better representation of both women and women of colour within the party. So it's far from clearcut.

I say this as someone who has never (yet) voted Tory, but may do today because it's the least worst choice out of a very difficult situation.

NoviceNetwork · 05/05/2022 08:51

I’m about to go and vote Tory for the first time.

I actually had a knock at the door last night and had a good chat with our local Tory candidate. He was actually knowledgeable about the potential problems of ‘gender neutral’ facilities and clashes of rights, and seemed very firmly on the side of biological reality.

It was refreshing that he didn’t condescend or act horrified that I have never voted Tory before (I told him) and he was respectful even over things we disagreed with.

It was a shocking contrast to the Labour candidate who couldn’t get away quick enough.

Floisme · 05/05/2022 08:45

I will be spoiling my vote. I've talked about doing it before but always managed to find a least worst choice I could live with. This time the game's up. I will not vote for any party that will not uphold my legal rights. I will not vote Tory because this has all the signs of being a weathervane election and I don't want to give this government the slightest idea that I might endorse them.

I've been at counts so I know that some candidates / agents scrutinise every spoiled vote and that some don't bother. That's on them and the message will be there if they care to look: 'Respect my sex if you want my X' (I might add 'Liars' next to the Tory candidate for good measure.)

To those who disagree with me, I say, 'Fair enough'. I have no time for posters who come on here to lecture or who try and shame us into changing our minds. It's a shit situation and we all have to make the best decision we can.

Moodycow78 · 05/05/2022 08:44

Franca123 · 04/05/2022 15:43

I'm going to vote tory. It's safer. I don't want to risk my sex based rights so I'm going to hold my nose and do it. I think spoiling your ballot is a luxury we can't afford. Looks what's happened with abortion rights in the US.

The thing is I don't think the Tories are any better, they're just better at hiding it. The fuckwitery that's been going on the last 5-10 years has all happened on their watch, they're no friends to women 🙄

RaininginDarling · 05/05/2022 08:41

I'm in NI. Being a left leaning Liberal who once considered themselves a progressive, its been a bit of a no-brainer, for me, on who to vote for locally for some years. Not that they ever end up with significant power but, on most issues, we've been aligned. I was ignored and lied to when I bought up my concerns about self ID and the conversion therapy bill when I bought it up with my local Councillor. As such, I will be spoiling my vote for the first time in my life. And yes, IME during the count, messages will be read out and messages directed at particular parties/candidates are seen.

Original poster

DameHelena · 05/05/2022 08:33

DeeCeeCherry · 05/05/2022 01:53

The Tories will say anything to get gullible women who believe they have integrity when it comes to womens' rights, to vote for them.

& Women who know they're a right wing party so of course womens' right wont feature high on their agenda, but vote for the. anyway

Womens' rights aren't a priority for Tories now, and won't be just because you vote for them.

Then again if you're looking at it from an 'I'm cool with Tories standing up for women who look like me, couldnt cate less about others that dont look like me' stance then it doesn't matter much

Just vote for the sleaze party because you want to, no need for the entirely non-convincing explanations as to why you think Tories will give a single shiny shit about protecting womens' rights much beyond polling day and the lead-up

This is extremely offensive, as well as off the mark. Here's why:

'gullible women'? How many people on here sound to you as if they really believe the Tories? There's a big discussion about the Tory effect on women more generally and an acknowledgement that sometimes voting is about sending a message.
You suggest that people are dissembling about their reasons for voting Tory and that they actually 'want to' . Why are you disbelieving/second-guessing what people – women – are telling you? How fucking arrogant.

OP posts:

PermanentTemporary · 05/05/2022 08:25

I've voted Green because of the local candidate's characteristics and ability to work with people and get stuff done.

Tories are using this issue to shore up their vote. I think their commitment to women's rights is only real by their own standards. Boris is probably solid on abortion rights because he's requested that so many women have them. Only a Labour woman got something changed on abortion for women in Northern Ireland.

rumred · 05/05/2022 08:22

The tories are decimating this country and are totally ingrained in the patriarchy. They are screwing the poorest and most vulnerable in our society. Voting for them is selfish and short sighted, imo. There will always be fights and disagreements. Labour are embarrassing currently but the tories are plain greedy bad and wrong.
I find it hard to believe people vote tory and have any integrity or real interest in fairness

Mumoblue · 05/05/2022 08:22

@octopusdweller Okay, and all those things have happened under a Tory government, not to mention the cost of living crisis that is hitting low income women hardest. As a low income woman myself, I am certainly not feeling protected by the Tories.

octopusdweller · 05/05/2022 08:20

Mumoblue · 05/05/2022 07:53

If you honestly believe the Tories are going to actually do anything to help women I’ve got a fucking bridge to sell you.
I have to try and vote to get the Tories out.
As PP said, Johnson’s fucking racist and the Tories hate the poor- so what women are they interested in protecting the rights of?

Well in this case, its low income women who are most affected in so many areas. Women in prisons are from the poorest and most vulnerable demographic of women and they are being housed with men, forced to shower in front of men and threatened with punishments if they try to assert any boundaries on this. Women in refuges are most likely to be poor women as they lack the economic means to escape under their own resources. Rape survivor groups I suspect are most likely used by lower income women ( this was certainly the experience of my friend who attended a (cost free) rape survivors group), as they are less likely to be able to afford one to one counselling to deal with trauma. So if the Tories work to maintain sex segegration, rather than gender segregation, low income women are more likely to be protected in this area at least, than under Labour. And this area is about such basic rights such as not being subject to male sexual violence and intimidation. Its pretty basic. If the Labour party cannot support this you can see that they haven't really internalised what women's equality means, have they? Which is not surprising, being as they cannot even define what a woman is.

ItsAllGoingToBeFine · 05/05/2022 08:18

I'm also spoiling my ballot with "respect my sex".

No-one I can vote for in good conscience.

octopusdweller · 05/05/2022 08:12

I have a separate thread on my labour candidates. I was going to vote for the Labour guy as he is really on board with the whole protecting women's sex based rights. On the other hand I don't really want to give the whole Labour party a boost, as I don't want them to win a general election and destroy women's safety and women's rights. The fact that women's prisoners are being housed with men disgusts me and I will not have any part in facilitating this with my vote.

So WWYD. Our Tory candidate is strong on women's sex based rights. So maybe I will just go for him.

ImAvingOops · 05/05/2022 08:10

The thing is, Boris Johnson is replaceable, whereas the whole of the Labour Party/Lib Dems/Greens etc who have come out and claimed men are women if they say do, are not all replaceable.
Voting Tory isn't ignoring racism, it's acknowledging that twaw will damage all of us and will inhibit some women from religious backgrounds from taking part in public life, if there are no sex protected spaces.
BJ is an arse but if there's one thing I'd guarantee, it's that he knows what a woman is! He changes according to whichever way the wind blows, so it's important to let him know this issue matters and is a vote winner/loser.