Anyone else left wing and gender critical?

“Extremism” is 100% correct, though I was surprised you said it! Thought I’d completely misjudged you for a moment there, OP.

I am.

But clearly it isn't only the politicians on the left that are asked their views on this- the PM, Sajid Javid and Rishi Sunak have all spoken on these issues recently. Liz Truss was asked on radio before.

And there are many women who are left leaning for whom this is such a massive issue, that they would consider voting Tory because of it. Sajid Javid needs to put his money where his mouth is- he is reviewing the impact of treatment for gender dysphoria, let's hope for a good outcome.

I would vote Tory to ensure children are safeguarded tbh. And I'm a former LP member who never would have considered voting for them before.

I'm more left than Labour is in my activism but I vote strategically. The left has a long tradition of fucking over women (both centre and far left). Women have been fucked over by unions, told to wait for our issues to be addressed until their revolution happens, left to make the tea and do the childcare, treated as the harem of those men who are leaders of parties and organisations and have seen our central issues pushed to the bottom of agendas. Men on the left have rarely 'owned' their reliance on women's domestic labour or their violence and exploitation of us. Many happily use porn and prostitute women and argue that women's liberation will happen with the proliferation of the sexual open market.

As far as I am concerned I don't trust the men of the left any more than I trust the men of the right (who also do the above). To some extent, I've always been politically homeless because in my activism women come first.

I stay with the left though and try to effect change from within because the right is a real enemy of women and especially disadvantaged women and because I also care about social class and disadvantage. As an early poster said - the right need to have clarity over what a woman is so they can oppress us - and they are quite happy to screw over the poor, disadvantaged and various minority groups.

I could never align with the right. If I did social media I could never share anything from the Tories/Right/Right-wing media at least without very careful qualification because I'd see this as a promotion of them and would be concerned that it might be read as an endorsement of their broader ideology.

I will nod to those on the right who I agree with - but I will do so carefully.

I wonder if some left women will protest vote by voting Tory (now and in the immediate future), I do suspect that there are many quietly Tory GC women and I also sense that there are some newly politicised women who don't have a traditional alliance and who might align right. I also suspect that some women might see the sex/gender issue as a lynchpin and will be prepared to vote for a party that will stop funding altogether to a range of women's services/further destroy the NHS/welfare state and screw a range of disadvantaged and disenfranchised women.

I'm now more politically homeless than ever before but I will not shift to the right.

You must be - as they have been asked

generally they do better at talking about biological reality than Labour

I don’t look at RW press you mention so not sure what you mean re GC and this

Knowing that humans cannot change sex should not be a left or right wing political position.

Knowing that males have advantage over females in sport should not be a left or right wing political position.

Knowing that males shouldn’t be locked up with females should not be a left or right wing political position.

Wanting children to have evidence-based treatment that does not leave them infertile and asexual for the rest of their lives should not be a left or right wing political position.

And so on. It’s like saying people who believe the Earth is an oblate spheroid are clearly going to be of a political persuasion 🙄. It’s nonsense. These are basic positions of common sense and humanity that have been turned into a political left vs right issue because it’s easy for activists to recruit to their cause; paint anyone who opposes their stance against reality and common sense as a “right wing bigot” and callow people who fear being seen as unkind jump on board.

It’s quite obvious to anyone paying attention that opposition to gender ideology is across the political spectrum, because anyone who isn’t an idiot, regardless of political affiliation, can see the denial of biological reality that goes with it.

In contrast to this breadth of opposition to the batshit nonsense, there is only a tiny bandwidth of the political spectrum that actually supports it, because they’re willing to let politics determine their view on reality for their own validation of their political position. And what does that tell you? That people are prepared to let their politics get in the way of seeing the realities of the affirmative treatment pathway for children, for example? It’s tells me that the Centre Left are sanctimonious fools at best. At worst, I can’t say what I really think.

So someone tell me - between the SNP and the Tories - who do I choose? Talk about devil and the deep blue C ...

100%

This isn’t a left vs right issue.

If you think either side of the political spectrum is protecting women’s rights you’re sadly mistaken.

Exactly. It’s almost like no critical thought has been applied.

The post above by @ChopinBoard is spot on.

Particularly the bit about outsourcing your thinking.

I agree with ChopinBoard's post. Tribal thinking has a lot to answer for and I'm also not the least bit interested in dissecting whether or not gender critical beliefs belong on the 'one true left'. As far as I'm concerned, neither the left nor the right can be trusted with women's rights.

I don’t know how anyone could read FWR and think we’re anything other than predominantly left wing.

I think Elon Musk has it about right (attached).

I think one of the reasons that so many on the left seem to accept the twaw narrative is the kind of tribalism displayed in the op. If right is bad (it's not) and left is good (it's not) then lefty people should accept the lefty position (in this case twaw). Ime the cognitive dissonance comes in when you realise your tribe has it wrong, and you start wondering what else they (and therefore you) have wrong.

I used to outsource a lot of my thinking to my tribe. This issue has taught me not to. I don't really think it's that helpful to package up a load of ideas about different topics and assert membership to a group which believes all the same things. Much better to think critically and form my own opinions.

As for being critical of BLM and XR, that doesn't make someone right wing (although many on the right will have their concerns). Suggesting otherwise looks to me like the same kind of tribal thinking that has led so many lefties to uncritically accept twaw because it's part of the lefty package of ideas. We need to move past this*

*I know that doesn't help with who to vote for!

I'm another old hand from the Westministenders threads, OP. I'm left-of-centre, atheist, gender critical, socially liberal and politically homeless.

I spoiled my ballot this time (postal vote so already done).

Anyone else left wing and gender critical?

Only most of us.
The idea that GC people are right wing/conservative is a TRA talking point.

Left wing, will never vote Tory.
As pp have said, calling GC views 'far right' seems like a tactic to shut down opponents to me - like the 'funded by the Christian Right' nonsense.

But unlike others I don't blame OP for asking! It works. I let it cloud my thinking for too long. This idea of being wedded to all the beliefs of anyone we wouldn't normally because they talk sense on this issue is very stupid when you think about it.

I don't get that feel of 'far right' leaning on these feminism boards you describe. The opposite if anything generally. But it is not a left or right belief and I get what you mean about finding yourself shoulder to shoulder with people who ordinarily would have not have much in common.

The diagram upthread is good in simple terms. This issue does unite many who are polar opposites in many other areas.

Yes me too

For a while now we have had to get used to Labour politicians saying TWAW and that Labour would support self-id.
Recently many Tory politicians have come out saying biological sex is important.

I think slightly more Tory supporters that Labour supporters would be prepared to say ‘sex is important and immutable’ at this moment in time. BUT I feel that for both parties, if questions are asked in a way that people can’t blink the issues, a large majority of Labour and Tory supporters are against self ID.

So I really don’t think the issue is a left wing/right wing one in the way that (say) taxation, benefits, education might be. But I can’t understand the failure of many many politicians, more of them left wing, to address the issues with any intellectual rigour.

To liven this up a little, is anyone here "right-wing and gender-critical"? Got to be someone, right?

Question does seem like it's pointed at the wrong forum - asking it on Mumsnet's FWR is a bit like going to a vegan site and saying "does anyone else here not eat eggs?". Not sure where it should be posted to be honest.

Maybe somewhere in the US might make more sense, where the left-wing opposition is far more brutally oppressed and it might make more sense to think it doesn't exist?

Yup, left of centre and gc here too. I don't recognise your description of MN gc posters as right wing at all, OP.

'Slagging off the woke' these days doesn't mean you're right wing, because the 'wokeness' people are slagging off is in fact usually misogynist, homophobic, racist or empty virtue-signalling. Many of the woke have become what they claim to despise - i.e. bigots.