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Original poster

Scottish Tory leader - a transwoman is a 'female who has changed sex not gender'

35 replies

DomesticatedZombie · 03/05/2022 13:53

Well, that's a refreshing take.

I think he's arguing for single sex spaces. Or the complete opposite.

twitter.com/BBCScotNine/status/1519041454613610498

OP posts:
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HirplesWithHaggis · 06/05/2022 16:46

DomesticatedZombie · 04/05/2022 08:59

Ruth has been awfully quite for a long while. Be interesting to hear her views.

Joanna Cherry has challenged Ruth and Nicola to a debate on the topic.

www.holyrood.com/news/view,joanna-cherry-challenges-sturgeon-and-davidson-to-debate

SirChenjins · 04/05/2022 12:53

the only thing that is really clear is that SEX MATTERS

Not when pitched against a promise of another indy ref. Do you honestly think that majority of the voting public actually cares about sex v gender and the SG's stance on the matter?

PerkingFaintly · 04/05/2022 12:20

Yep.

Original poster
DomesticatedZombie · 04/05/2022 12:16

PerkingFaintly · 04/05/2022 11:18

I suppose if someone obtains a GRC, they have legally (in some views) changed sex. But their 'gender' remains allegedly the same.

But in that case the single-sex spaces in the manifesto will include people who have changed their sex.

the only thing that is really clear is that SEX MATTERS.

We need to operate on the basis of sex; it's the only metric that actually has an impact. Nobody gives a fuck what your 'gender' is, but when it comes to actual practical daily life, sex matters.

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SirChenjins · 04/05/2022 11:20

*across Scotland

SirChenjins · 04/05/2022 11:20

DdraigGoch · 03/05/2022 20:37

Given that we're talking about Scotland, this mess hasn't happened on "their watch" at all. The SNP are responsible.

Show quote history

Ahh, but as the SNP will tell you, there's much they don't control across the UK (although we all know they like to cherry pick there). Tories/SNP - both are responsible. The difference is that the SNP are doubling down on the trans issue to appease their Green partners in crime whereas the Tories are saying lots of words in a desperate attempt to win votes (whilst screwing women over in plenty of other ways).

PerkingFaintly · 04/05/2022 11:18

I suppose if someone obtains a GRC, they have legally (in some views) changed sex. But their 'gender' remains allegedly the same.

But in that case the single-sex spaces in the manifesto will include people who have changed their sex.

Original poster
DomesticatedZombie · 04/05/2022 08:59

Ruth has been awfully quite for a long while. Be interesting to hear her views.

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EdgeOfSeventeenAndThreeQuarter · 04/05/2022 08:32

Dougie needs to hand the mike to Ruth for this one - I reckon she’d get it and be able to articulate it.

Original poster
DomesticatedZombie · 03/05/2022 22:36

PrelateChuckles · 03/05/2022 21:17

I thought a TW's gender was supposedly always 'woman', so there is a logic to saying a person doesn't change their gender.
If they've changed their body to be in line with their gender (whatever that means) then someone might think that means their physical sex has changed in some way.

Basically if you are trans, your gender is the innate gender you were born with, and your sex is the biological sex you were born with, so nothing actually changes or transitions. This is what has always puzzled me!
Unless you think 'gender' means clothes, appearance etc, but you'd be wrong - that's 'gender expression'.

Good god. That almost makes a warped kind of sense.

I suppose if someone obtains a GRC, they have legally (in some views) changed sex. But their 'gender' remains allegedly the same.

😱

OP posts:
PrelateChuckles · 03/05/2022 21:17

I thought a TW's gender was supposedly always 'woman', so there is a logic to saying a person doesn't change their gender.
If they've changed their body to be in line with their gender (whatever that means) then someone might think that means their physical sex has changed in some way.

Basically if you are trans, your gender is the innate gender you were born with, and your sex is the biological sex you were born with, so nothing actually changes or transitions. This is what has always puzzled me!
Unless you think 'gender' means clothes, appearance etc, but you'd be wrong - that's 'gender expression'.

DdraigGoch · 03/05/2022 20:37

SirChenjins · 03/05/2022 15:19

He means a transwoman (ie a man) is a 'female who has changed gender not sex', surely Confused

Anyway, don't be fooled by a few words by the Tories. This madness has happened on their watch and so far there's been FA of any substance from them to change legislation or policy. This is all for show with the local elections coming up.

Given that we're talking about Scotland, this mess hasn't happened on "their watch" at all. The SNP are responsible.

PerkingFaintly · 03/05/2022 20:30

Which is fine if the manifesto really means sex, but not if like Ross they've switched sex with gender.

I'm inclined to hope someone involved in the manifesto does know what they're talking about.

Douglas Ross clearly doesn't.

Original poster
DomesticatedZombie · 03/05/2022 20:21

Scottish Conservative councillors will seek to ensure that there are single-sex spaces available in all council-run facilities

That's actually quite clear.

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SirChenjins · 03/05/2022 19:38

Neither does he - but he’s been told that some people are falling for their BS so to crack on and say a shed load of words about what it means to be a woman (or transwoman, he’s not quite sure…) whilst not actually doing anything to correct their fuck ups on the issue.

Artichokeleaves · 03/05/2022 17:02

I have no idea what he's on about.

PerkingFaintly · 03/05/2022 16:06

Ha, apt cross-post with DomesticatedZombie. Smile

PerkingFaintly · 03/05/2022 16:04

I think what Ross is saying is, "I've been told this issue is a Vote Winner, but I can't be arsed to actually learn anything about it, or even learn my crib notes."

Original poster
DomesticatedZombie · 03/05/2022 16:03

What I believe he meant to say is a transwoman is a male who has changed gender but not sex.

It's enough for me. I'll vote for them on Thursday, given there's no other parties standing up for single sex spaces. Certainly not something I've ever done, or even considered, up until this point. But Nicola Sturgeon's performance the other day means I cannot in good conscience put an x in a box next to any SNP candidate.

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Blimeyherewegoagain · 03/05/2022 15:55

Well, given that it’s impossible to change sex, isn’t he saying that trans women are therefore not women?

Fenlandia · 03/05/2022 15:52

I agree the language around all this is confusing - it's almost like that's been designed in by TRAs. I think there's still lots of people who think a transwoman is a female transitioning to male, not to mention the widespread perception that all or nearly all trans people go for hormones and surgery, without realising that 'trans' can mean weekend cross-dressers now according to Stonewall.

SirChenjins · 03/05/2022 15:19

He means a transwoman (ie a man) is a 'female who has changed gender not sex', surely Confused

Anyway, don't be fooled by a few words by the Tories. This madness has happened on their watch and so far there's been FA of any substance from them to change legislation or policy. This is all for show with the local elections coming up.

AmaryllisNightAndDay · 03/05/2022 14:54

Be fair - all the language around this is confusing. If you are "transsexual" then you have "gender reassignment surgery". And a large chunk of "Material Women" is just teasing apart the different possible meanings of the words "sex" and "gender".

tabbycatstripy · 03/05/2022 14:46

I’m so confused. You can’t change your biological sex, but the GENDER recognition act does change your legal sex to acknowledge your gender, even though gender is also fluid?

Call a cab, I’m done.

Whatwouldscullydo · 03/05/2022 14:30

🤣🤣.oops

A liar needs a good memory and all that.

When you lie you always slip up. This is what happens when you outsource your thinking