Single sex toilets and muslim women

Anyone can go to a pool, anyone. There isn’t a barrier to entry.… unless you mean a misogynist culture that means females are excluded because they have to cover their body…. Yeah, well it’s that culture not the greater culture that needs to be address.

Also what about males, shouldn’t they be allowed space for themselves away from females who have been abusers in their lives?

@Helloahoy the problem with "normal" girl guiding is that the organisation leadership have lost sight of what a girl is, therefore you may encounter a man who presents as a transwoman in a position of leadership and a boy who presents as a transgirl in your daughter's tent. Hence, a parent of any religion might have well justified concerns that this is not a single sex organisation.

Why live in the UK?? Because I happen to be British, not from 'Islamistan' or wherever you think Muslim people come from! I send my daughter to a Muslim group because it is the only one where I am confident she will not be sharing sleeping facilities or showers with males when away on camps, or won't have male adults providing any type of intimate care. I don't think those are unreasonable demands. For the record I don't mind calling people whatever names they fancy. I mind female-only spaces disappearing because that means many places become inaccessible to whole groups of women for various reasons, and as far as I am aware gender-neutral spaces are less safe for women.

@Helloahoy
That's weird, when I lived in Christchurch NZ, there were women only swimming classes. I grew up and now live back in Ireland and could and can attend women only swim classes. Both countries speak English.
A quick Google of the situation in Canada threw up this
www.toronto.ca
Australia this
www.movemv.com.au/swim/womens-only-swimming

Maybe it's not as rare as you think.

Local pool, not people.

Think equity, not equality.
Equal opportunities does not always reap equal outcomes. Societies should be aspiring to equal outcomes and one of the ways of achieving this is to target resources towards those who are currently underrepresented.
Women only swimming sessions is a way of levelling up access.

Why should I fight for my local people to have a men's only session. I don't care if they have one or not. If men want one that's their fight. I don't even know any men who would want mens only sessions. They don't care. They want to swim and then leave. So I'd be fighting for nothing.

Women do care. Women do want womens only sessions.

It’s a double standard though? No one is stating they should be removed, but why aren’t you fighting for them? Feminists wants alies, but I guess if only fighting for them.

I would guarantee that 100% of women would use those changing rooms. The rest would those wanting to get their end away.

I don’t even like coming out of a shower with my towel on in front of other women.

Its rare to see any changing rooms that are open in clothing shops or even swimming pools.

I did go to an open changing area at the swimming pool, there was cubicles. looking back there is such a big risk that someone could take a video etc. Plus it’s harder to shower children naked etc.

If men want men only swimming sessions then they can campaign for them.

Removing women only spaces isn't the answer.

If public facilities/ work / gym /pool changing rooms were males ,mixed and. Female only, despite what some might say, I could guarantee that 99% of women would use the female facility. Leaving the mixed for the genuinely confused . However I could also guarantee that there will still be males wanting to use the female one for the purpose of validation, voyeurism or violence. Women are saying no. Get over it.

Indeed I know many men who would prefer men only swimming sessions.

I’m not sure about that as my friend who went there said Grindr was full of men showing their faces

….if male only was offered, it would be equality, but it’s not.

Other English speaking countries don’t have female only swimming sessions. I find it bizarre the uk does.

@Mandodari I completely agree men in men women in women's. I am objecting to alligning and piling in behind religious beliefs and not the most liberal or feminist factions of those religions either and using them to shape usage of public spaces. Holding up orthadox Jewishness and that fraction of Islam as bastions of liberal feminism doesn't sit well with me. As I said the enemy of thy enemy isn't always thy friend.

@Fishwishy
UK customs were always same sex for public spaces like toilets, changing rooms and many sports facilities. The fact that this alignes with the beliefs of some religions doesn't mean it should be thrown aside in an effort to prove how secular you are. I have no religious affiliation but do not want to share toilet facilties with men and would prefer female only swimming classes.

Does it ever occur to anyone just how RIDICULOUS the battle cry "transwomen are women" actually is?

We ALL know it's not true.
Even the people who SAY it know it's not true.
Even transwomen know it's not true.
It's like saying "the sky is green".
Repetition of a phrase does not mean it gains credence.

Men are not women.
And transwomen are men.
Like it or not.

You are entitled to your own opinions.
You are NOT entitled to your own FACTS.

For the avoidance of doubt. I do not believe that men should be in women's toilets or vice versa.

I just don't believe the enemy of thy enemy is thy friend. And it's only certain parts of these religions that have major issues with them and I really don't think western secular feminism has much in common with them Indeed some sects of these religions are actively opposite to feminism.

You are incorrect, a man can't be a woman. He can wear "female" clothing, pump himself full of hormones and have surgeons chop off some body parts and add others. He cannot change his sex. He remains male. Transwomen are adult human males.

I am not Muslim or Jewish, I do not wish to share single sex spaces with men.

We can't go around adjusting our customs in the UK to accommodate men who think they are women. I want a s
society where you can believe whatever you want in the privacy of your own home but not when it comes to public spaces.

As I say secular country secular rules inside your own home believe what you like. France has definitely got it right there.

As I say secular country secular rules inside your own home believe what you like. France has definitely got it right there.

I mean there are many other rules of Islam and authodox Jewishness I'm sum the fwr section of mumsnet Is certainly not embracing. Should those freedoms excluding women from certain areas because men and women must be separate be indulged and accommodated too?