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Original poster

Lots said about the importance of using the corect terms - can we stop obfuscating misogyny??

33 replies

Itscalledmisogyny · 30/04/2022 22:04

Just this. I get incredibly frustrated over our use of their terms. Could we stop calling people transactivists, TRAs, genderists, believers in gender ideology etc etc - if what we are seeing is misogyny.

We need to pull back the Overton window and call misogyny misogyny. Not some other term which in effect excuses and conceals misogyny under the label of choice of the misogynist.

Someone who argues that female rape survivors 'need' mixed-sex groups is a misogynist. Someone who removes female provision for toilets so that women have less access to toilets than men is a misogynist. Someone who refuses vulnerable and disabled women the right to female personal care is a misogynist. Someone who insists that male police with 'special' identities should be allowed to strip search women is a misogynist. Someone who supports housing male prisoners in female prisons is a misogynist. etc etc etc.

We need to use the word more. Outside of MN, Twitter and a few other narrow circles, calling someone a TRA or even a MRA will be little understood. And it gives their misogyny an ideological figleaf it does not merit.

Can we all start saying it more, loud and clear.

It's called misogyny. It's misogyny. MISOGYNY.

OP posts:
Original poster
Itscalledmisogyny · 01/05/2022 10:46

FemaleAndLearning · 30/04/2022 23:47

What it is really about is power and control, which is similar to misogyny, but also other forms of abuse.
I don't think misogyny is the best word to use as we just get branded men haters and other women come out and state not all men.
We need to be plain speaking to get the message across.
Think of the the two statements below, which gives you more information:

  1. A man who says he is a woman should not be in women's single sex spaces.
  2. It is misogyny when men who say they are women use women's single sex spaces.

I believe statement one is much clearer. It tells the audience the exact issue. I constantly have to remind myself that most people are blissfully unaware of the issues. They are the people we need to communicate with.

I disagree. I think the word 'misogyny' is widely used and understood, and I don't think there's a general assumption that people who use it are man-haters.

Ordinary women (and men) need to understand that what is at stake here is that women's rights are threatened.

If even feminists avoid saying this then how are those not involved in the siiuses supposed to guess it's not all about trans rights??

When TRAs call us 'transphobes', for standing up for women's rights, the quickest, pithiest and most easily understood response is to call them 'misogynists'. Because that's what they are.

We need to pull back the Overton window, as I said. Because the real issue is the attack on women's rights.

Let's focus on that. Let's call it what it is.

OP posts:
Original poster
Itscalledmisogyny · 01/05/2022 10:40

Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2022 00:01

I agree it's misogyny, but I think it's useful to delineate this particular flavour of misogyny from others.

Fair enough. But it's rare to hear the word 'misogyny' - even though it is as well.

I think if you're trying to get most women (and men) onside - people who are not involved in the discussions and basically believe if everyone was nice to each other the problems would go away - labelling misogyny as eg trans rights activism centres trans people in what is actually an issue of WOMEN'S RIGHTS - and turns off all the 'be nice' mainstream, who immediately jump to the conclusions it's mean women being nasty to poor trans people.

To me this is at heart about misogyny. And yes - I absolutely believe it is about misogyny. Hatred of women. It's not an accident we're having endless discussions about the definition of the word 'woman' but not the word 'man', that it's women's toilets which are being taken over as mixed sex, while men get to keep their separate facilities etc. It's misogyny.

If even feminists in FWR refuse to recognise this, I despair.

OP posts:
Ereshkigalangcleg · 01/05/2022 00:01

I agree it's misogyny, but I think it's useful to delineate this particular flavour of misogyny from others.

FemaleAndLearning · 30/04/2022 23:47

What it is really about is power and control, which is similar to misogyny, but also other forms of abuse.
I don't think misogyny is the best word to use as we just get branded men haters and other women come out and state not all men.
We need to be plain speaking to get the message across.
Think of the the two statements below, which gives you more information:

  1. A man who says he is a woman should not be in women's single sex spaces.
  2. It is misogyny when men who say they are women use women's single sex spaces.

I believe statement one is much clearer. It tells the audience the exact issue. I constantly have to remind myself that most people are blissfully unaware of the issues. They are the people we need to communicate with.

JellySaurus · 30/04/2022 23:37

It's not misogyny to a person who is completely invested in the trans neo-religion. A person can believe that they are supporting women and be completely oblivious to the fact that including males contradicts that.

There's a heck of a lot of misogyny in this issue. There will be many who parrot TWAW while knowing perfectly well that TWAM. These people are misogynists acting with deliberate disdain for women.

IvyTwines · 30/04/2022 23:23

The problem is that it really does look as though misogyny (and homophobia) are actually fashionable at the moment with this lot.

Discovereads · 30/04/2022 23:12

No it’s really not.

Misogyny is hatred of, contempt for, or prejudice against women. As the pp pointed out the person arguing for x, must be motivated by a hatred of, contempt for or have a prejudice against women for there to be misogyny involved. In the issues you listed, calling it misogyny on anyone just for disagreeing with you is simply name calling.

Less access to toilets is certainly not misogyny, for example, that’s everyday sexism at worst. If you’re going to use it, use it correctly. Using it more in the way you suggest is just watering misogyny down until it loses its meaning and power.

MangyInseam · 30/04/2022 22:52

Maybe?

I don't think anything that isn't good for women is necessarily misogyny, which has to do with the feelings and motivations of individuals.

In fact I think sometimes making the assumption that misogyny is always behind such things makes it difficult to really understand what's creating a particular situation.

So sure, if something is motivated by hatred of women as a group, it's misogyny but I don't see how you can make a blanket statement about what that will include.